"Wave of Humanity?"
- Thread starter docrailgun
- Start date
I agree that the PLA is not the "numbers" army that it should be-especially their tanks! 275 is a much more reasonable cost. Compared to the Abrams-it needs to roll 9 or 10 to kill-needs a 10 to kill a Challenger II and that's in the open. Ap of 3 means that the Abrams and Challengers need to roll 5+/6+ saves. Meanwile the 99 can be killed by either tank on a 7, 8, 9 or 10 while getting a save of 6+/-. In Cover, the 99 has NO chance at killing either the Abrams or Challenger, while the other two tanks need a 9 or 10 to kill a 99. Those are huge differences and when you apply the point spread, the 99 is obviously overcosted. Hell, a Shadow and do the same amount of damage output and is only moderately less survivable for 70.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
yeah but a Shadow can only fire in it's Forward arc, plus, small arms fire can take out a shadow, can't even scratch a 99.
LBH
LBH
actualy the shaow has a highter survival rate that a type 99 due to speed and size and size score, as well as a better weapon system. and for 5 point more you get the FAV !!!! HELLO HELLO HELLO the pla fav should be between 50 and 70 more around the 65 mark id say, no idea who the playtesters where but i presume they didnt test everything that fully, ive got about 10 games in with the pla FAV and they dont stack up well at all, soooo not worth the points in any way, id take them for fun but for a tourny, nooooooooooo way.
pla infantry is another example of an over priced unit,
just for a fast example 2 basic squads of MEA give you 150 points 12 men includong a rpg with a longer range than the pla law ok pla law doese more damage but your never be in range to use it at full effect as by that time your probably supprssed. and has a lower splash area of effect than the rpg, so they cancle each other out, and there is no way a LAW can kill a chally in the open !!!!!
so we are left with a 2 man differance for the mea and a MG for the pla.
now the mg option is costed at 30 points so we shall drop that so we now have a 7 man squad at 160 points !!!!
7 pla men for 160 points with a comparable weapon to the MEA RPG
V
12 MEA with 2 RPGs comparable to the pla law for 150 points !!!!
pla are sooooooo over costed
whats going on !!!!!
pla infantry is another example of an over priced unit,
just for a fast example 2 basic squads of MEA give you 150 points 12 men includong a rpg with a longer range than the pla law ok pla law doese more damage but your never be in range to use it at full effect as by that time your probably supprssed. and has a lower splash area of effect than the rpg, so they cancle each other out, and there is no way a LAW can kill a chally in the open !!!!!
so we are left with a 2 man differance for the mea and a MG for the pla.
now the mg option is costed at 30 points so we shall drop that so we now have a 7 man squad at 160 points !!!!
7 pla men for 160 points with a comparable weapon to the MEA RPG
V
12 MEA with 2 RPGs comparable to the pla law for 150 points !!!!
pla are sooooooo over costed
whats going on !!!!!
ok what i would have done with the pla type 99 tank
first some back ground
Armament
Type 99The main armament is a fully-stabilised 125mm smoothbore gun with an autoloader. Despite the early reports indicating the gun was a licensed copy of the Russian 2A46, it is actually an indigenous design derived from the Chinese 125mm smoothbore gun. The autoloader, however, is an improvement from the Russian autoloader used in T-80, and modified to fire western-style munitions designed in China.
Ammunition includes armour-piercing fin stabilised discarding sabot (APFSDS), high explosive anti-tank (HEAT), and high explosive fragmentation (HE-FRAG) projectiles. China has also reportedly manufactured Russian AT-11 laser-guided anti-tank missiles (ATGM) to be fired from the 125 mm gun. In addition, the Chinese have experimentally developed depleted uranium (DU) rounds for their tanks and these may be available for use in the Type 99.
ok as you can see its a bit random, a 125mm auto loading gun is an awsome bit of kit, preferable to a 120mm as it has less heat build up and a longer life.
i would have made it a fun weapon, with the possabilities of amazing effects but unpredicatbel, maybe D10+D6 average would be d10+3 or D10+4 but has the pottentual to go to D10+6 (it would never happen in my life time) representing DU rounds, like the odds rare.
then and only then it may just be worth the points oh and take kill to 12 as it disadvantage the turet trap actualy is a german design and although it can knock the turret ring out from moving it prevents AT rpunds deploying properly and stops them penatrating unlike WW2 rounds.
first some back ground
Armament
Type 99The main armament is a fully-stabilised 125mm smoothbore gun with an autoloader. Despite the early reports indicating the gun was a licensed copy of the Russian 2A46, it is actually an indigenous design derived from the Chinese 125mm smoothbore gun. The autoloader, however, is an improvement from the Russian autoloader used in T-80, and modified to fire western-style munitions designed in China.
Ammunition includes armour-piercing fin stabilised discarding sabot (APFSDS), high explosive anti-tank (HEAT), and high explosive fragmentation (HE-FRAG) projectiles. China has also reportedly manufactured Russian AT-11 laser-guided anti-tank missiles (ATGM) to be fired from the 125 mm gun. In addition, the Chinese have experimentally developed depleted uranium (DU) rounds for their tanks and these may be available for use in the Type 99.
ok as you can see its a bit random, a 125mm auto loading gun is an awsome bit of kit, preferable to a 120mm as it has less heat build up and a longer life.
i would have made it a fun weapon, with the possabilities of amazing effects but unpredicatbel, maybe D10+D6 average would be d10+3 or D10+4 but has the pottentual to go to D10+6 (it would never happen in my life time) representing DU rounds, like the odds rare.
then and only then it may just be worth the points oh and take kill to 12 as it disadvantage the turet trap actualy is a german design and although it can knock the turret ring out from moving it prevents AT rpunds deploying properly and stops them penatrating unlike WW2 rounds.
lastbesthope said:
True, but you can also buy 5 shadows for the cost of a 99...an enemy MBT can only fire at one per turn, while the shadows can throw back 5 shots at AP -4. You will probably lose a shadow (66% chance), but if you had a 99, it'd stand a good chance of being killed out right (33%). But, you'd still have 4 units left versus maybe none and you'd have traded 5 shots for one instead of one for one.
Really, i don't mind the lower stats of the 99, I just agree with other people that the 99 is over-costed in comparison.
In reality, we're at a point where superior tech really matters and in a real war, it shows. however, if you are talking about a tabletop minis game where you want equally matched forces in order to play competative games, yeah, the PLA IS too overcosted to be really competative. Otherwise you should do what the Historical wargamers do and switch sides at the end of game to see who did better overall.
lastbesthope said:
True, but you can also buy 5 shadows for the cost of a 99...an enemy MBT can only fire at one per turn, while the shadows can throw back 5 shots at AP -4. You will probably lose a shadow (66% chance), but if you had a 99, it'd stand a good chance of being killed out right (33%). But, you'd still have 4 units left versus maybe none and you'd have traded 5 shots for one instead of one for one.
Really, i don't mind the lower stats of the 99, I just agree with other people that the 99 is over-costed in comparison.
In reality, we're at a point where superior tech really matters and in a real war, it shows. however, if you are talking about a tabletop minis game where you want equally matched forces in order to play competative games, yeah, the PLA IS too overcosted to be really competative. Otherwise you should do what the Historical wargamers do and switch sides at the end of game to see who did better overall.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
OK, I'm not saying anything about the relative balance oif the two points wise, just pointing out the 2 major weaknesses a Shadow has that a 99 doesn't.
If I lost my only Challenger, I'd rather lose it to 5 Shadows than to 1 Type 99. My infantry might be able to take out the Shadows, no chance on the 99.
LBH
If I lost my only Challenger, I'd rather lose it to 5 Shadows than to 1 Type 99. My infantry might be able to take out the Shadows, no chance on the 99.
LBH
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Paladin said:Is that supposed to make the loss less painful?lastbesthope said:
Yes you got smoked by my army, but at least I didn't you didn't just get swarmed and royally pummelled like I could have done. :lol:
I just prefer not to take a hit I can't come back from :wink:
LBH
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