"Wave of Humanity?"

[docrailgun]

I know this is really nothing new, but I thought I would mention it anyway. I was playing around with some army lists, and I realized that though the PLA is advertised as a "wave of humanity", at 2100 points my USMC list actually has more models than a 2100 pt PLA list.
Lists:
USMC -
3 Marine squads (185 each) = 555 + 6 Shadows (70 each) = 420 = 975/ 27+ 6 = 33 models
1 Squad - 1 fire team (185-80) = 105 / 5 models
2 M1A2s = 840 / 2 models
Force Recon team (150) + 1 MG (30) = 180/ 5 models
2100 points/ 45 models
----
PLA -
4 x PLA infantry squads - MG team each (190 - 30 = 160) = 640 / 28 models
4 IFV = 4 x 175 = 700 / 4 models
2 Type 99 = 700 / 2 models
Command squad = 60 / 4 models
2100 points / 38 models

 

[Mr Evil]

yeah ive found this as well, the pla are often realy outnumbered, their points values dont stack up right. ive sorta stoped using them as their points value doesnt represent their ability either. evan their wave 3 fav is slightly over costed.

 

[Bondarus]

I shalln't have the glorious PLA bad mouthed by anybody :lol:

 

[tneva82]

4 IFV = 4 x 175 = 700 / 4 models

So apart from all the rest of kit you ALSO take up 4 IFV's while USMC has no IFV's(shadows are cheaper and softer).

Hmmmm...No wonder then if you get outnumbered!

 

[Mr Evil]

also i think the pla ifv is 150 each

 

[tneva82]

also i think the pla ifv is 150 each

Aha! That frees up 100 pts which will allow to give the MG team back to 3 teams which will means he outnumbers USMC while having tougher transports than the USMC to boot.

Okay so they might not be outnumbering 2:1 or something like that but outnumbering is possible.

It's not so much infantry vs infantry which I would be worried as PLA player but it's "how to deal with big tanks". Especially since you can't count on killing in one shot EVER with Type-99(unless you get lucky and can shoot at them when they are out of cover).

 

[Mr Evil]

the type 99 is a tough call, as it isnt realy great at anything but its cheap enough to take one, over say an alternative.

the type 99 will be better once we get the command squad then it can take pot shots and get back in hiding. pla need a command squad probably more than any other force.

the pla strenght and their weekness is their infantry, the let down for them is there points cost id say, 10-15 points less for the unit and there alot more viable compared to the brits,yanks and mea

 

[Paladin]

the type 99 is a tough call, as it isnt realy great at anything but its cheap enough to take one, over say an alternative.

In the 3 times I've seen it played it always seems to die in one shot from the Chall II or M1.

the pla strenght and their weekness is their infantry, the let down for them is there points cost id say, 10-15 points less for the unit and there alot more viable compared to the brits,yanks and mea

I'd rather see 2 more riflemen per squad.

 

[byram]

In the 3 times I've seen it played it always seems to die in one shot from the Chall II or M1.

you mean the way it should be? :lol:

 

[Mr Evil]

no not the way it should be, points wise it has no real value the type 99 is a dead duck, the real thing is actualy at a high threat level.

 

[byram]

no not the way it should be, points wise it has no real value the type 99 is a dead duck, the real thing is actualy at a high threat level.

not so much, the depleted uranium sabot rounds can punch through its armor relatively easily yes its over priced in game terms but i think they got it right in real life terms :lol: personally id drop the points a bit myself

 

[Turtle]

I'm hoping the PLA get a decent tank, I'm feeling like the Allies in WW2, losing 99s like Shermans.

 

[Mr Evil]

this is the best tank the pla have im sorry to say, the front armour itself is a major investment for them designed to deflect many munitions, the trouble is its kill score is 2 low, its more likly to die from several rounds damaging it due to its mechanical construction than a single hit killing it.

its also very light and has as part of its suspension the ability to absorb the pressure of the hit rather than resisting. there was a video showing it a while back

 

[Scotty59]

no not the way it should be, points wise it has no real value the type 99 is a dead duck, the real thing is actualy at a high threat level.

not so much, the depleted uranium sabot rounds can punch through its armor relatively easily yes its over priced in game terms but i think they got it right in real life terms :lol: personally id drop the points a bit myself

I agree, 350 seems a bit high considering how vulnerable the 99 can be against an M1A2. Even with the 99 in cover it can easily be killed.

 

[byram]

personally i think 275 reflects the actual ability better, that way you can get them at around 2 to 1 against the abrams (more realistic)

 

[Paladin]

275 may be a bit too low. I was thinking 310-325.

 

[Mr Evil]

you would have thought the playtesters may have faced this ! doese concern me a little.

the pla fav is also a bit over priced compaired to say the shadow or the hilux as well, so its not just the troops its the general theme for the pla to be over valued !! maybe the playtester for them had alot of luck with them lol

 

[Turtle]

The weakness of the Type 99 will only get worse as other armies get their anti tank support units/attachments. EFTF germans, USMC AT fireteam attachments, etc...

Perhaps a giving it a special rule where its Kill rating from the front is a more surviveable 12+.

Anyone know if the advanced rules will have a more detailed vehicle rules, at least for damage rules?

The cost of the Type 99 being higher than its effectiveness dictates may be that they priced the army configuration into the tank. PLA infantry start with two RPGs, they're short ranged, but still a threat to enemy tanks. In fact they're the only army with both a tank and AT infantry early.

Also, the human wave idea comes from the fact that you can reasonably field an entire army of infantry since the PLA have the largest normal squad, and have a versitile armament.

 

[byram]

well im was suggesting 275 so that way they can get some tank numerbs on the field, 275x 2 = 550, compared to the abrams 420, the abrams is gonna kill one of them, the other Type 99 may have a chance, the thing is the Type 99 NEEDS numbers on its side to win

 

[BuShips]

...or the PLA just adds a TUSK-like layer (maybe for free) and if the tank stats were broken that would do the trick. Maybe the PLA version is called "SHRECK", for Sino-Hull REactive Capability Kit. :lol: This way you'll soon have the Abrams Tank Commanders heard to tell their gunners "Shoot it again. Remember that these new versions are like onions. They have layers..." :wink: