Wave 2 Previews - Opinions Welcome
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
SeattleGamer
Mongoose
I'm pretty sure Mongoose withdrew their painted better than 90% claim as well. However, I assume that is still their target, still what they are shooting for. So as a report card I stated what they have with wave 2 is 65% (and Patton didn't think they were even that far along).
But however they rank, it's obvious they have a ways to go. Now, if they come out and replace the old claim with a new one "We will offer painted figures which will equal some of the current collectible ranges" then they are there now. I have always thought the D&D and MageKnight and Star Wars and Hero Clix and Horror Clix and Dreamblade figures are all done to a minimal standard. They are painted, and that's about as far as you can. Some of those are better than others, but none of them are painted well enough that a painter would be "proud" to field them. You field them because you play the game and these are the pieces you use.
Steve
But however they rank, it's obvious they have a ways to go. Now, if they come out and replace the old claim with a new one "We will offer painted figures which will equal some of the current collectible ranges" then they are there now. I have always thought the D&D and MageKnight and Star Wars and Hero Clix and Horror Clix and Dreamblade figures are all done to a minimal standard. They are painted, and that's about as far as you can. Some of those are better than others, but none of them are painted well enough that a painter would be "proud" to field them. You field them because you play the game and these are the pieces you use.
Steve
SeattleGamer said:
On a technical level, we have passed that point with wave 2. Now, whether you actually like the models or not is a question of taste. . .
msprange said:
can i say most the people who have complained about painting standard being low, have not to my knowledge posted any stunningly painted or converted figs as yet !!!!!
and by next week il have the proof that mongoose have surpased any other collectable painted 1:65 1:64 scale mini already.
MaxSteiner
Mongoose
SeattleGamer said:
Mongoose website said:
I think they really ought to change this then...
Perhaps changing it to "Professional level" since the Chinese labour is being paid, it would even be accurate!
Celisasu
Mongoose
So the only question remaining is whether these are the actual models we'll be seeing when they're bought at a store or ordered from Mongoose.
Assuming that is the case I'd consider them acceptible. The faces are still pretty bad and hopefully as the waves continue someone will figure out how to get them up to a tolerable point but other than that they're decent. As noted these are going to be tiny models and for that size the camo patterns, while not great, are definately tolerable for people who don't want to paint. Some of the bleed we see up close presumably won't be as obvious on tinier models seen from game table distance. Of course whether this is true or not won't be known until some of us actually purchase the models.
Of course what to do about Wave 1 remains a major question.
Assuming that is the case I'd consider them acceptible. The faces are still pretty bad and hopefully as the waves continue someone will figure out how to get them up to a tolerable point but other than that they're decent. As noted these are going to be tiny models and for that size the camo patterns, while not great, are definately tolerable for people who don't want to paint. Some of the bleed we see up close presumably won't be as obvious on tinier models seen from game table distance. Of course whether this is true or not won't be known until some of us actually purchase the models.
Of course what to do about Wave 1 remains a major question.
Mr Evil said:
Hmm, well I've complained about the ugliness of the new Ford F-150 Truck series, but I did not send Ford an actual car I've built myself. :roll:
I think if a company is going to adverstise a product as being a certain way, the public should be allowed a little latitude when complaining about an obvious slight in said product. Or is "conversation" not "revolution" unless its now backed up with visual aids.
SeattleGamer
Mongoose
msprange said:
Wave 1 actual production figures, clearly not. Wave 2 "preview" figures, I would agree, but that raises two points. (1) What assurances do any of us have that Wave 2 actual production figures will look anything like the samples, and (2) is the goal at Mongoose to strive to live up to early claims of quality (better than 90%), or to simply beat "some" of the offerings from other companies?
Wave 2 samples are certainly good enough to game with, and if you rest there you have pretty good figures. Not the best though, not even close. In the non-collectible market, I'd rate Rackham's White Stars an A- grade, with sample Wave 2 BFE earning a B. Actual production Wave 1 I'd give a C (okay for gaming but not something I would pay for).
Not that you asked for a grade
The irony is, WotC never came out and said (for instance) their D&D figures were going to be works of art people would be proud to game with. The figures were painted but that's about it. And sales were good not because the figures rocked, but because they had that D&D name (or Star Wars name) and people were willing to settle for crap because of their love for that genre. So nobody complained about the quality.
Mongoose sets this incredibly high quality bar, and then come up short. And you get raked over hot coals because of it. Doesn't seem fair, but you were trying to pull ahead of the pack and that paints a nice bullseye on your backs.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I appreciate that Mongoose TRIED to aim for the highest possible quality. I hope you will keep trying.
Steve
Mr Evil said:
Yeah... But remind me again who's putting them on sale anyway? At the same price?
Comparing the BF:EVO minis to people's own work or to other companies' prepaints is moot when talking about the difference between the production models and preview models.
I admire your brand loyalty Evil, and I agree that the product range as it stands as of Wave 2 isn't bad - but it's simply not as good as the original previews and no degree of fanaticism is going to change that. Even Mongoose knows it and has publically acknowledged it. Everyone knows Mongoose dropped the ball somewhere so why do you insist on being the only person on earth to claim they have no liability whatsoever?
Mongoose made a mistake. Mongoose acknowledged and admitted it and is working to fix it as best they can. That's cool. Mongoose is people, people make mistakes - it's how you take responsibility for your mistakes that counts and, although IMO not sterling, Mongoose seems to be hanbdling this very well. They're open and honest about it, which is a big step forward. Based on what I've seen over the past weeks, Mongoose is well on its way to getting this product on the right track and - market willing - will have a success on its hands before the year is out. They deserve it and I'll be happy for them when they cross over the break-even point.
But they did make a mistake, and denying that come hell or high water just makes a mockery of Mongoose's progressive handling of the situation.
i think many would agree i am first to complain about stuff, if its worth complaining about. i was quite prepared to drop the game, but i have been fortuante to see a few things others havnt, poss evan mongoose towers.
there has been times ive been very negative about mongoose products, but once i get a sample in my hand i can take around to a few distributers, i think i have found a new market out let for mongoose they didnt realise existed, and can see their product selling very well.
V collectable minis, they excell them on the same scale margin, and exceed many larger scale productions.
V my personal camo painting, for that scale and that that amount of detail they exceed what i would personaly do for an entire army.
and to be honest this maybe the first army people own were every thing is painted for battle.
if you can produce better camo on a GZG size min 40 times over without taking weeks over it, then your a far better man than me, and im known for painting larg armies fast !!!
you have several choices with these minis, repaint them, ink them, drybrush them, or leave them !!!!
or you could complain, without evan owning or using a force of them ! end of the day its your loss not ours and not MGP, give them a chance then complain, or join frothers, they are a bunch a fun sceptics if ive ever seen any lol.
like i said earlier, il have soem proper pics up next week of what the collectable versions look like in hand. and the MGP from what ive seen beat them hands down.
there has been times ive been very negative about mongoose products, but once i get a sample in my hand i can take around to a few distributers, i think i have found a new market out let for mongoose they didnt realise existed, and can see their product selling very well.
V collectable minis, they excell them on the same scale margin, and exceed many larger scale productions.
V my personal camo painting, for that scale and that that amount of detail they exceed what i would personaly do for an entire army.
and to be honest this maybe the first army people own were every thing is painted for battle.
if you can produce better camo on a GZG size min 40 times over without taking weeks over it, then your a far better man than me, and im known for painting larg armies fast !!!
you have several choices with these minis, repaint them, ink them, drybrush them, or leave them !!!!
or you could complain, without evan owning or using a force of them ! end of the day its your loss not ours and not MGP, give them a chance then complain, or join frothers, they are a bunch a fun sceptics if ive ever seen any lol.
like i said earlier, il have soem proper pics up next week of what the collectable versions look like in hand. and the MGP from what ive seen beat them hands down.
Mr Evil said:
In a word, I'd call it lack of oversight. They trusted what the factory told them about production being similar to the examples. That part of it is in the lap of Mongoose. They needed a batch of the production run to inspect before final approval was granted and their contract should have allowed for that. I'll use the great quote by Ronald Reagan when he was dealing with the USSR in strategic arms negociations. The quote he used was even beautifully taken from a Russian proverb itself- Доверя́й, но проверя́й (Transliteration: Doveryay, no proveryay) which is in English Trust, but verify :wink:. With that said though, I ordered today over $400.00 in BF:E miniatures for my store so that I can look at them for myself and set aside some for demo purposes of the game. I also have some urban structures made that I wanted to send into S&P and I will not submit photos that include any game units that are not the products of MGP.
ScipioAmericanus
Mongoose
I'll wade in. And what follows are just MY opinions.
I have no intention of getting into BF:Evo. The premise, as I see it, is flawed. Is it Sci-Fi, or is it Modern? Oh, wait: it's BOTH.
"Ranger, you are a NO-GO at this station." Why do I say this?
A "Near Future" game allows creative license, granted. But who cares? WHY is this game relevant? Why is it worthwhile?
I won't comment on the minis, the promises made (and shown, and trumpeted), and how quickly those promises have been forgotten.
IMHO this "Near Future" game should really be a "Here and Now" game. God knows there are enough existing and potential flash-points in the world to fill several army books and supplements.
Is the "Here and Now" too scary?
Evidently not for GHQ. They keep coming out with the latest.
What the Hell is the point of BF:Evo???? Who's fighting who? And WHY????
Oh well. My two pfennigs.
Regards.
P.S. NO MORE SH*T MINI'S!!!!!!!!
I have no intention of getting into BF:Evo. The premise, as I see it, is flawed. Is it Sci-Fi, or is it Modern? Oh, wait: it's BOTH.
"Ranger, you are a NO-GO at this station." Why do I say this?
A "Near Future" game allows creative license, granted. But who cares? WHY is this game relevant? Why is it worthwhile?
I won't comment on the minis, the promises made (and shown, and trumpeted), and how quickly those promises have been forgotten.
IMHO this "Near Future" game should really be a "Here and Now" game. God knows there are enough existing and potential flash-points in the world to fill several army books and supplements.
Is the "Here and Now" too scary?
Evidently not for GHQ. They keep coming out with the latest.
What the Hell is the point of BF:Evo???? Who's fighting who? And WHY????
Oh well. My two pfennigs.
Regards.
P.S. NO MORE SH*T MINI'S!!!!!!!!
ScipioAmericanus
Mongoose
Hiromoon said:
Yeah. Agreed. :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
WHY are the PLA fighting the Arabs? WHY are the British fighting the PLA? WHY are the US Marines fighting the PLA? Is it WWIII? Is it total chaos? Dogs and cats living together??? Nukes flying everywhere? People chanting, "It's the end of the world as we know it"?
JUST WHAT is BF:Evo all about? Is it "near future" as advertised? If so, then get a new writer. "This dog won't hunt." Translation: "this is too outlandish to be taken seriously." As currently shown, it is ridiculous....and I don't care HOW good the rules are.
Awww, hell. Why am I even bothering.
Regards.
