Vietnam REvolution
- Thread starter Armchair_Marine
- Start date
2xD6 means it will nail about 75% of infantry in the open, and will be able to score hits on soft skinned vehicles, which shouldn't have a target greater than 6. I would go with that, it does give infantry a chance to survive, particularly in cover.
However if you are going to use napalm I recommend rules for setting buildings and woods on fire.
However if you are going to use napalm I recommend rules for setting buildings and woods on fire.
I have come up with a veteran style special rule for US forces and would like to get people's opinions on it:
Drive On
Units with this ability are veteran units who have seen it all. They know that all you can do is ‘Drive On. It don’t mean nothing!’ Such a unit gets +1 Armour Saves when in cover and gets a save at 4+ to remove the first Suppression effect on the unit.
I was wondering whether it should just get rid of the first suppression effect against that unit in a turn, rather than being a save at 4+?
The VC/NVA can have the same ability, but it is called 'Battle Hardened'
Drive On
Units with this ability are veteran units who have seen it all. They know that all you can do is ‘Drive On. It don’t mean nothing!’ Such a unit gets +1 Armour Saves when in cover and gets a save at 4+ to remove the first Suppression effect on the unit.
I was wondering whether it should just get rid of the first suppression effect against that unit in a turn, rather than being a save at 4+?
The VC/NVA can have the same ability, but it is called 'Battle Hardened'
Hi its alan calling, since you are sticking to the evo system i would stick to forget first suppression, then a 4+ extra roll.
The only reason, it that you may have to start adding other rolls to other units over time, and move away from the basic rules of Evo..
Saying that, i added more detail as you know..!!!!
Make it first suppression and maybe OBC BECOMES COVER, or a save of +1, since a lot did not wear armour, does that mean a save of 6+
Speak later mate
Alan
The only reason, it that you may have to start adding other rolls to other units over time, and move away from the basic rules of Evo..
Saying that, i added more detail as you know..!!!!
Make it first suppression and maybe OBC BECOMES COVER, or a save of +1, since a lot did not wear armour, does that mean a save of 6+
Speak later mate
Alan
I am now at the point where I need to come up with some helicopter and armour stats. I figure the new air rules will be similiar to those in SST, just with slightly different stats to take into account the EVO rules.
Does anyone have an ideas about what should be included?
Basically, the weapons in the MOD go by different names but they have the same stats as the modern weapons (bar a few minimal changes), so I presume that using the stats for the vehicles from Hiromoon's cards would be the best starting point?
Anyway, if anyone has any ideas they would be greatfully recieved.
Does anyone have an ideas about what should be included?
Basically, the weapons in the MOD go by different names but they have the same stats as the modern weapons (bar a few minimal changes), so I presume that using the stats for the vehicles from Hiromoon's cards would be the best starting point?
Anyway, if anyone has any ideas they would be greatfully recieved.
I figure the standard Huey needs to be vulnerable to small arms fire. Thus I think its Target number should be 6+. After all, while it is in the air only AA weapons will be able to target it. It is only when it comes down to drop off/pick up that it truly becomes vulnerable.
For the Kill score, it shouldn't have the kill score of a tank or APC, so it will have to be less than 10+. A Toyota or Shadow has a Kill of 8+, so maybe the Huey wants the same?
For the armour save, if tanks or APC's are 2 or 3+, then a Huey should be worse. The shadow has 4+ and the Truck 5+, so I figure it should probably be 4+
For the Tough Special Rule, the Toyota is 1 failed armour roll and the Shadow/ warrior is 2, so my guess is that it would be 2 failed armour rolls.
Thus, it would be
Huey
Target 6+
Armour 4+
Kill 8+
Special Rules:
Tough: ignore first two failed Armour rolls.
Does this sound right to everyone?
For the Kill score, it shouldn't have the kill score of a tank or APC, so it will have to be less than 10+. A Toyota or Shadow has a Kill of 8+, so maybe the Huey wants the same?
For the armour save, if tanks or APC's are 2 or 3+, then a Huey should be worse. The shadow has 4+ and the Truck 5+, so I figure it should probably be 4+
For the Tough Special Rule, the Toyota is 1 failed armour roll and the Shadow/ warrior is 2, so my guess is that it would be 2 failed armour rolls.
Thus, it would be
Huey
Target 6+
Armour 4+
Kill 8+
Special Rules:
Tough: ignore first two failed Armour rolls.
Does this sound right to everyone?
I used some of the suggestions earlier in this thread and came up with:
Jungle Fighters
These fighters are experts at fighting in the terrain and jungles of ‘Nam. They get a bonus +1 to their Target score when Obscured i.e. their Target score is +2.
However, I am now thinking that either this needs a new name or it is not quite right. Basically, my worry is that Obscured will be far less common than Cover on the battlefield, and jungles would be cover.
Out of interest, do the LOS of sight rules mean that when 2 units in a jungle/wood can see each other they have cover from each other, or would it by counted as clear or obstructed?
Jungle Fighters
These fighters are experts at fighting in the terrain and jungles of ‘Nam. They get a bonus +1 to their Target score when Obscured i.e. their Target score is +2.
However, I am now thinking that either this needs a new name or it is not quite right. Basically, my worry is that Obscured will be far less common than Cover on the battlefield, and jungles would be cover.
Out of interest, do the LOS of sight rules mean that when 2 units in a jungle/wood can see each other they have cover from each other, or would it by counted as clear or obstructed?
I changed Jungle Fighting to: Can move at full movement when in jungle.
I was wondering what the largest workable unit is? The MEA Infantry Squad can go up to 12, but I was thinking of having an NVA Rilfe squad having the potential to go up to 17. The reason for this is I wanted to replicate the NVA running towards the enemy in almost suicidal waves and the larger the unit the less chance of them getting suppressed.
What do people think about a squad size of up to 17?
I was wondering what the largest workable unit is? The MEA Infantry Squad can go up to 12, but I was thinking of having an NVA Rilfe squad having the potential to go up to 17. The reason for this is I wanted to replicate the NVA running towards the enemy in almost suicidal waves and the larger the unit the less chance of them getting suppressed.
What do people think about a squad size of up to 17?
At the moment my VC/NVA squads are based on how the MEA squads work i.e. 6 base men with option to buy 6 more.
I was wondering if they should instead be based on how the PLA work ie 3 3-man Fire Teams? I have read somewhere that the VC/NVA liked working on the doctrine of 3: 3 men work together, 3 such groups form a squad, 3 squads to a Company etc.
The reason I have gone with an MEA style squad at the moment is that I thought one of the advantages the Americans should have is their ability to work in Fire Teams. Out of interest, one of the differences between the 'Nam US forces and normal USMC forces in B:Evo is that the 'Nam forces don't have MERS and therefore don't have 12" command ranges, which makes the ability to split into Fire Teams even more valuable for defending areas when outnumbered.
Any opinions greatfully recieved!
I was wondering if they should instead be based on how the PLA work ie 3 3-man Fire Teams? I have read somewhere that the VC/NVA liked working on the doctrine of 3: 3 men work together, 3 such groups form a squad, 3 squads to a Company etc.
The reason I have gone with an MEA style squad at the moment is that I thought one of the advantages the Americans should have is their ability to work in Fire Teams. Out of interest, one of the differences between the 'Nam US forces and normal USMC forces in B:Evo is that the 'Nam forces don't have MERS and therefore don't have 12" command ranges, which makes the ability to split into Fire Teams even more valuable for defending areas when outnumbered.
Any opinions greatfully recieved!
I am looking at Nam helicopters. I have worked out the stats:
Huey Transport
Size 5
Target 6+
Armour 4+
Kill 8+
Gunship
Size 5
Target 6+
Armour 5+
Kill 8+
Toughness: Each helicopter can ignore the first two Armour Rolls.
I am now trying to work out the weapon stats and the ordinance for each type. I am not sure what these should be but here is a stab at it:
M60 Door Gunner - 30" 4d6
Gattling Type Cannon - 30" 5d6, -1 penalty to armour.
Rockets - 40" D10 (-1 Armour rolls)
Tow - Range 70" D10+2 (-3 Armour rolls)
Huey Transport - MG60 door gunner - can fire out on a side facing. This would be able to carry 14 size 1 models.
Huey Medivac - Can carry 6 stretchers.
Gunship - 1xGattling type cannon e.g. M197, and Rockets + TOW.
Any opinions much appreciated.
In addition, I was wondering whether there was only 1 door gunner per Slick or 2?
Also, did the medivac Hueys have any door gunners? Were they the same as normal Slicks?
As to rockets and TOW i thought that it was probably best not to limit the amount. Obviously, it would be easy to keep track of rockets fired but this does not seem to be the right ethos for B:Evo.
EDIT: Armour for Huey Transport should be 5+
Also, i have been thinking about the Door Gunner - I gave him 4xD6, like a readied MG (i.e. +2D6), but am not sure it shouldn't just be 2xD6. If it was 2xD6 then the Gattling Cannon should be 3xD6. Does this sound right?
Huey Transport
Size 5
Target 6+
Armour 4+
Kill 8+
Gunship
Size 5
Target 6+
Armour 5+
Kill 8+
Toughness: Each helicopter can ignore the first two Armour Rolls.
I am now trying to work out the weapon stats and the ordinance for each type. I am not sure what these should be but here is a stab at it:
M60 Door Gunner - 30" 4d6
Gattling Type Cannon - 30" 5d6, -1 penalty to armour.
Rockets - 40" D10 (-1 Armour rolls)
Tow - Range 70" D10+2 (-3 Armour rolls)
Huey Transport - MG60 door gunner - can fire out on a side facing. This would be able to carry 14 size 1 models.
Huey Medivac - Can carry 6 stretchers.
Gunship - 1xGattling type cannon e.g. M197, and Rockets + TOW.
Any opinions much appreciated.
In addition, I was wondering whether there was only 1 door gunner per Slick or 2?
Also, did the medivac Hueys have any door gunners? Were they the same as normal Slicks?
As to rockets and TOW i thought that it was probably best not to limit the amount. Obviously, it would be easy to keep track of rockets fired but this does not seem to be the right ethos for B:Evo.
EDIT: Armour for Huey Transport should be 5+
Also, i have been thinking about the Door Gunner - I gave him 4xD6, like a readied MG (i.e. +2D6), but am not sure it shouldn't just be 2xD6. If it was 2xD6 then the Gattling Cannon should be 3xD6. Does this sound right?
weasel_fierce
Mongoose
Iorwerth said:
Is there any solid evidence past confused war diaries, that this was actually North vietnamese army doctrine ?
NVA troops were army regulars. They had a TO&E they were organized by. So its an easy matter of looking up what a squad contained.
weasel_fierce said:
I'm almost certain not. That would be Korea. The NVA as you say was comprised or regulars with a TOE who fought like regulars (just a quick check of existing video footage shows that). Thats not to say they didn't do it but it would be rare. Vietnamese militias or Communist sympathisers mght though, but I know very little about them.
Vietnam-era Huey would be UH-1B/C/D/E/F models. These could carry 7 troops or 3 stretchers (UH-1B) or 11 troops or 6 stretchers.
The door guns would be less accurate than nose turret guns (or even ground MG - door guns are being fired from moving helo without the benefit of stabilisation or rangfinding - 2d6 sounds about right), although providing improved firing arcs. There is one door gunner per side.
No AH-1 gun ships were fitted with TOW during the Vietnam war (a small number of UH-1B were fitted in 1972). The AH-1Q was equipped with TOW missiles in 1975.
During the Vietnam war the AH-1G was fitted with either a TAT-102A nose turret (7.62mm minigun) - early production, or XM-28 nose turret (7.62mm minigun and 40mm grenade launcher) - late production.
AH-1G carried either 4 rocket pods or 2 rocket pods and M35 20mm gun pod or 2 rocket pods and 2 7.62mm gun pods.
Standard doctrine was to bring in ammo on inboard resupply UH-1 and casualties on the way out. These would have door guns.
Dedicated medivac helo with the red cross on the side, are not allowed by law to be armed. I doubt these were used in Vietnam.
The door guns would be less accurate than nose turret guns (or even ground MG - door guns are being fired from moving helo without the benefit of stabilisation or rangfinding - 2d6 sounds about right), although providing improved firing arcs. There is one door gunner per side.
No AH-1 gun ships were fitted with TOW during the Vietnam war (a small number of UH-1B were fitted in 1972). The AH-1Q was equipped with TOW missiles in 1975.
During the Vietnam war the AH-1G was fitted with either a TAT-102A nose turret (7.62mm minigun) - early production, or XM-28 nose turret (7.62mm minigun and 40mm grenade launcher) - late production.
AH-1G carried either 4 rocket pods or 2 rocket pods and M35 20mm gun pod or 2 rocket pods and 2 7.62mm gun pods.
Standard doctrine was to bring in ammo on inboard resupply UH-1 and casualties on the way out. These would have door guns.
Dedicated medivac helo with the red cross on the side, are not allowed by law to be armed. I doubt these were used in Vietnam.
I have just downloaded my Nam Mod onto the yahoo group site, if anyone wants a look. There are still a few things missing, like ARVN troops and I have only done two helicopters, Huey transport Slick and a Gunship, along with an APC.
Included are a few new special rules, as well as some rules about darkness, tunnels, Off-board support w/naplam, Booby traps etc. I have worked out a US Light Infantry Company and a Marine Company, as well as VC militia, Regional, and Main Force, along with NVA forces.
Additional units include Recon, Special Forces, Sappers, Snipers, Medics, Political officers, Platoon Sgts and a few others.
I have tried to keep it as close to the B:EVo weapon stats as possible and have had a lot of help from those who have been kind enough to answer my queries. Thanks to everyone who helped, much appreciated.
Anyway, just thought I would let people know it is up, for better or worse!
Included are a few new special rules, as well as some rules about darkness, tunnels, Off-board support w/naplam, Booby traps etc. I have worked out a US Light Infantry Company and a Marine Company, as well as VC militia, Regional, and Main Force, along with NVA forces.
Additional units include Recon, Special Forces, Sappers, Snipers, Medics, Political officers, Platoon Sgts and a few others.
I have tried to keep it as close to the B:EVo weapon stats as possible and have had a lot of help from those who have been kind enough to answer my queries. Thanks to everyone who helped, much appreciated.
Anyway, just thought I would let people know it is up, for better or worse!
