VHB 2026 spaces & shipping volume

[ResslynHalvik]

I've searched here but can't find this already discussed so I assume I'm just being thick.

I don't understand what the new VHB means on page 25 where it says

The baseline assumption for most vehicles is that their shipping tonnage (or half their total volume) is twice the volume of their available Spaces

Can anyone explain what that actually means to me please? If I have a 5dT docking bay available on a spaceship, what size vehicle in terms of spaces can I put in it?

 

[Arkathan]

When you create a 20 space vehicle, you are defining the useable volume. The rest of the vehicle also takes up 20 spaces.
The total vehicle is thus 40 spaces for shipping purposes, which equates to ten Dtons.
Your 5 Dton bay will accommodate a ten space vehicle.

 

[ResslynHalvik]

Mnnnnnnhhhh. Thank you.
I think I understand that. Not sure how you got that from the what the book says though!

 

[Arkathan]

Page 25, the insert shows that half of the vehicle is structure, power and locomotion.
The space rating is what you can use. Add the other half in for shipping.
Four spaces is a dton.

 

[ResslynHalvik]

Oh, OK - I guess I was getting to bound up with trying to understand the text. If I had ignored that I might have done better. And I see now that page 26 says a Space is approximately 3.5 cubic metres. And now I have seen that, the weird text on p25 makes more sense, as long as we ignore the "(or half their total volume)" part.

 

[Libris]

The spaces description thing on p25 isn’t great. The Vehicle Type on p28-33 tells you how many dTons it takes up as cargo and makes much more sense.

Bear in mind that shipping volume refers to how much space it takes up as cargo, ie. crammed in and not easily accessible.
To be easily accessible it needs to be in a docking bay which takes up 10% more than the shipping volume or in a hanger which requires double the shipping volume, Both options are ridiculously expensive!

I can actually see most merchants with a vehicle carrying it as cargo and breaking it out once the cargo is unloaded.

 

[mavikfelna]

The spaces description thing on p25 isn’t great. The Vehicle Type on p28-33 tells you how many dTons it takes up as cargo and makes much more sense.

Bear in mind that shipping volume refers to how much space it takes up as cargo, ie. crammed in and not easily accessible.
To be easily accessible it needs to be in a docking bay which takes up 10% more than the shipping volume or in a hanger which requires double the shipping volume, Both options are ridiculously expensive!

I can actually see most merchants with a vehicle carrying it as cargo and breaking it out once the cargo is unloaded.

Use a cargo airlock of the vehicle size and store the vehicle as cargo in it. It still has to go through prep from cargo to use, but you don't have to move other cargo out to get to it. And while it costs a lot more than cargo space, it's a tenth the cost of docking space.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Use a cargo airlock of the vehicle size and store the vehicle as cargo in it. It still has to go through prep from cargo to use, but you don't have to move other cargo out to get to it. And while it costs a lot more than cargo space, it's a tenth the cost of docking space.

But it's not intrinsically secure the way it is in a docking space. Airlocks are not designed for carrying cargo securely. Watch those fancy maneuvers!

 

[Arkathan]

But it's not intrinsically secure the way it is in a docking space. Airlocks are not designed for carrying cargo securely. Watch those fancy maneuvers!

As a cargo space, even the airlock, it will have the TL9-15+ equivalent of tiedown fittings. When I was on a carrier navy usage was rounded indents at regular intervals with crossed metal bars on top that you can hook chains to, whether securing pallets or utility boats or planes for rough weather..

 

[Terry Mixon]

As a cargo space, even the airlock, it will have the TL9-15+ equivalent of tiedown fittings. When I was on a carrier navy usage was rounded indents at regular intervals with crossed metal bars on top that you can hook chains to, whether securing pallets or utility boats or planes for rough weather..

I suppose...

 

[Libris]

As a cargo space, even the airlock, it will have the TL9-15+ equivalent of tiedown fittings. When I was on a carrier navy usage was rounded indents at regular intervals with crossed metal bars on top that you can hook chains to, whether securing pallets or utility boats or planes for rough weather..

Kind of makes docking bays and hangers redundant if that’s allowed.

A 4 dTon air-raft needs a MCr1.25 5 dTon docking bay for a D3 minute launch/recovery or a MCr1.6 8 dTon hanger for a 2D minute launch/recovery. You’d never fit these if you could just stash it for easy access in a cargo deck or a MCr0.4 4 dTon cargo airlock.

The real question I suppose is what in world reason is there not to store a vehicle as some form of cargo

 

[mavikfelna]

Kind of makes docking bays and hangers redundant if that’s allowed.

A 4 dTon air-raft needs a MCr1.25 5 dTon docking bay for a D3 minute launch/recovery or a MCr1.6 8 dTon hanger for a 2D minute launch/recovery. You’d never fit these if you could just stash it for easy access in a cargo deck or a MCr0.4 4 dTon cargo airlock.

The real question I suppose is what in world reason is there not to store a vehicle as some form of cargo

None at all that I can see. Other than it takes 10x as long to deploy them, so no emergency use.

 

[Endie]

Kind of makes docking bays and hangers redundant if that’s allowed.

A 4 dTon air-raft needs a MCr1.25 5 dTon docking bay for a D3 minute launch/recovery or a MCr1.6 8 dTon hanger for a 2D minute launch/recovery. You’d never fit these if you could just stash it for easy access in a cargo deck or a MCr0.4 4 dTon cargo airlock.

The real question I suppose is what in world reason is there not to store a vehicle as some form of cargo

I strongly agree. The dedicated docking spaces will also be allowing budget for a multitude of other stuff like launching and recovery tech, adequate space to allow access to service all areas of the vehicle, various charging and diagnostic cables and rapid-attach or detach fixings.

If someone games the system by using a cargo bay to try and save money or space they should get what they pay for: make them roll to launch and recover the craft and do so at a penalty; make securing the vehicle before manoeuvres (or releasing it for a rapid launch) take 1dx10 minutes; have servicing or repairs take ten times as long and be done at a substantial penalty on the dice; have a significant chance that a damage critical scored on cargo be at a +1 severity (make the chance appropriate for the percentage of the ship taken up by the corner-cutting bay). And have the ship maintenance cost substantially more to allow for all the dings.

It’s the sort of thing you get on daytime TV DIY shows about “how I ruined my home.” The SomethingAwful DIY thread always has threads with such horror stories about this sort of thing.

 

[swordtart]

Also every time you want to use that airlock for its intended purpose you will need to be moving the thing stored in it out. It may not be convenient if you need to move your ATV into space so that you can dock with a ship in distress.

The design rules are fluffy enough that you probably could do this, but the risk is that your ship will start to look like a teenagers bedroom.

 

[Sigtrygg]

But it's not intrinsically secure the way it is in a docking space. Airlocks are not designed for carrying cargo securely. Watch those fancy maneuvers!

They have no effect, everything in the ship experiences a motionless ship thanks to the acceleration compensation.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The real question I suppose is what in world reason is there not to store a vehicle as some form of cargo

You may want to perform maintenance on the vehicle, so you need more access space around it.

 

[Arkathan]

I suppose...

Can do does not equate to should do.

 

[Libris]

You may want to perform maintenance on the vehicle, so you need more access space around it.

True.

I think the problem really is that while the cost of hangers and docking bays seem reasonable relative to the price of small craft they are just ridiculously expensive for most vehicles - an ATV bay costs MCr2.75 and a hanger (garage?) costs MCr4 which seems a bit of over the top and that's on top of the MCr1.1 or MCr2 you've already paid for the starship hull!

In real life the cost of that maintenance capability tends to be related to the vehicle's cost - a dedicated garage for a Bugatti is going to be way more expensive than a Nissan.

I'm inclined to think that for vehicles they should be related to the price of the vehicle - basically something without an M-Drive or spacecraft hull - with the MCr0.25 and MCr0.2 per dTon for Docking Bays and Hangers being the upper limit rather than the base cost.

 

[ResslynHalvik]

I am still a bit unclear on this.
If I have a 5dT bay, I can put a 10-spaces vehicle in it. How big is the vehicle - 2.5dT? or just a shade less than 5dT?

 

[Arkathan]

The vehicle is 5dtons. Your bay is rated for 5 dtons, making it take up 5.5 dtons.
You can treat the vehicle as cargo and shoehorn it into 5 tons of cargo space, but now you need an hour or more to unpack it.
With a bay, you just hop in open the door and drive out.