Using High Efficiency Batteries for Jump Drives

[Vormaerin]

Use an m-drive to get to 100D, use a jump drive that consumes hydrogen by the effton
complication 1 - you can carry the fuel in drop tanks
complication 2 - the Annic Nova
complication 3 - jump drives can now be battery powered

Drop tanks leads to the discussion of oilers and fueling stations if you allow drop tanks to be recovered - may as well have a jump gate
Collectors (of which there are now at least three different version) lead to hot racking charged accumulators - may as well have a jump gate
Batteries leads to charging stations at the 100D limit - may as well have a jump gate

Jump drives not jumping are wasting money, m-drives not maneuvering are wasting money, which lead to LASH or dedicated jump tenders - may as well have a jump gate

I agree that all three of these undermine the basic assumptions about how space travel works in Charted Space. I've thought that since the first two came out.

But Jump gates are significantly more restrictive than 'most commercial vessels don't carry fuel internally for reasons'. I've run games with jump gates. It can be a fun way to do things. But it is absolutely different than refueling stations or some kind of pre-charging the jump drive mechanism.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I think the batteries powering the jump is only part of the process. The hydrogen is used to generate exotic woo-woo particles and the batteries don’t do that.

Nor do collectors or antimatter plants use hydrogen...

 

[Terry Mixon]

Nor do collectors or antimatter plants use hydrogen...

The hydrogen is somehow processed to get the exotic particles. The other two must get them in a different manner.

I hadn’t heard antimatter didn’t require hydrogen. Where is that from? T5?

 

[Sigtrygg]

Particles don't exist, they are excitations in a field. Forget the word particle (I wish I never used it)

As to antimatter CT MWM Jumpspace article GDW JTAS 24/MGT JTAS2, MegaTraveller, TNE, T4, GT, etc.

 

[Condottiere]

1. How do jump drives work?

2. Gizmos that guzzle refined or unrefined fuel, and a get a surge of electricity.

3. Byproduct seems to be a jump bubble composed of hydrogen.

4. Collectors collect exotic particles that initiate transition, without needing fuel, though electricity is still required.

5. How is the jump bubble formed?

6. It seems unlikely that there are enough exotic particles that can form the jump bubble, if that's it's catalysis, or composition.

7. The source of electricity doesn't matter, so anti matter reactors are halal.

8. Narrative indicates a dimensional rift is created, by presumably the release of the exotic particles.

9. Since the creation, nor collection, of them, appears to effect the dimension we inhabit.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Particles don't exist, they are excitations in a field. Forget the word particle (I wish I never used it)

As to antimatter CT MWM Jumpspace article GDW JTAS 24/MGT JTAS2, MegaTraveller, TNE, T4, GT, etc.

Got it. Woo-woo excitations, then. That is what the hydrogen is for.

 

[Arkathan]

Why am I hearing a Beach Boys song in my head now?

 

[Terry Mixon]

Why am I hearing a Beach Boys song in my head now?

Now I am, too. Thanks, me.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Got it. Woo-woo excitations, then. That is what the hydrogen is for.

Only if a fusion power plant is used, since it is not used in collector or antimatter enabled jump drives.

 

[Arkathan]

I'm picking up jump vibrations
Sig's calling them excitations
Jump, jump, jump... Jump vibrations.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Only if a fusion power plant is used, since it is not used in collector or antimatter enabled jump drives.

Looking at the JTAS #2 article, it says anti-matter can be used, yes, but it says nothing that I can see about obliviating the need for hydrogen fuel. The JTAS #24 article seems to be the same as the one in JTAS #2 at a glance and also doesn't seem to mention anything about no hydrogen for anti-matter powered jumps. Maybe the change is only in one of the other systems? I'm not familiar with them, but in any case, I don't know that MgT2e anti-matter powered jumps are hydrogen free,

 

[Nelphine]

I guess my question is "why pick that star travel system if that's not the kind of environment you want to play in?"

Yeah my point is, it's easy to world build and end up there specifically because it IS efficient and makes sense for a (certain type of) developed culture, so its something to watch out for as a referee to avoid accidentally convincing yourself of doing something that might not be good for actual gaming.

 

[Condottiere]

There's more than one way to skin Schrodinger's Cat.

You could have them all co exist.

 

[WHULorigan]

Looking at the JTAS #2 article, it says anti-matter can be used, yes, but it says nothing that I can see about obliviating the need for hydrogen fuel. The JTAS #24 article seems to be the same as the one in JTAS #2 at a glance and also doesn't seem to mention anything about no hydrogen for anti-matter powered jumps. Maybe the change is only in one of the other systems? I'm not familiar with them, but in any case, I don't know that MgT2e anti-matter powered jumps are hydrogen free,

The "Hydrogen-filled Jump Bubble" was never a part of CT, so there would be no reason to mention L-Hyd for Antimatter powered jumps in JTAS #24.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Looking at the JTAS #2 article, it says anti-matter can be used, yes, but it says nothing that I can see about obliviating the need for hydrogen fuel. The JTAS #24 article seems to be the same as the one in JTAS #2 at a glance and also doesn't seem to mention anything about no hydrogen for anti-matter powered jumps. Maybe the change is only in one of the other systems? I'm not familiar with them, but in any case, I don't know that MgT2e anti-matter powered jumps are hydrogen free,

Nor does it explicitly say you do need hydrogen for the jump drive, it does explicitly state you need the hydrogen for the power plant.

"Power Source
Jumping uses large amounts of energy to rip open the barriers between normal space and jump space. Normally, only a fusion power plant can supply this energy. Some alternate systems make use of solar power generators (which operate far more slowly) or anti-matter power systems (rare and very high-tech).
Energy Storage Nodes
Once power is generated, it must be stored until the instant of jump. Capacitors or large fast discharge batteries fit this requirement"

"When the jump drive is activated, a large store of fuel is fed through the ship’s power plant to create the energy necessary for the jump drive. In the interests of rapid energy generation, the power plant does not work at full efficiency, and some of the fuel is lost in carrying off fusion byproducts, and in cooling the system. At the end of a very brief period (less than a few minutes), the jump drive capacitors have been charged to capacity. Under computer control, the energy is then fed into appropriate sections of the jump drive and jump begins."

No mention of a hydrogen filled jump bubble.

 

[Sigtrygg]

There's more than one way to skin Schrodinger's Cat.

You could have them all co exist.

You do know Schrodinger used this example to show how ridiculous trying to interpret a wave function as a "real thing".

 

[Sigtrygg]

The "Hydrogen-filled Jump Bubble" was never a part of CT, so there would be no reason to mention L-Hyd for Antimatter powered jumps in JTAS #24.

It was never a thing until T4 authors misunderstood the MT SOM, for some reason this bit of fanon made canon made it into MgT.
It is directly contradicted by collectors (and antimatter but I don't think MgT has tackled antimatter powered jump drives yet, going by the rules in Hg2022 a ship needs hydrogen jump "fuel" regardless of power plant).

 

[Sigtrygg]

Well that was a revelation.

I finally read the rules on high efficiency batteries.

Why would you bother with any other power source for your ship?

What is missing is the timescale for using the energy stored in the battery, should it be per combat turn?

I am assuming you can't just replace your fusion plant with an equal mass of batteries (which are cheaper and have more EPs)

 

[Vormaerin]

Nor does it explicitly say you do need hydrogen for the jump drive, it does explicitly state you need the hydrogen for the power plant.

Yeah, the traditional version is the "Oh, the power plant can produce a lot more energy than normal in brief surges that use LOTS of fuel but we only use this for powering jump drives and nothing else for reasons."

The fact that power plants were changed from ratings to energy points makes it look like the jump drive needs the same power as the maneuver drive, but the original (and T5) conception is that power plant overclocks massively for a very short time to power the jump, whereas the M-drive is powered by normal operating levels.

The standard reason that chemical, fission, or battery energy can't power the J-Drive is that it can't produce that massive overclocking surge and TravellerFusion can.

Collectors do something entirely different. Who knows what? But in T5 they don't produce normal power for ship systems and can only trigger the jump drive.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I have always thought that the whole "overclocking" of the fusion reactor to put out more power, but only for the purposes of jumping, was stupid. If I can "overclock" the reactor to generate more power, then how are ion weapons effective if I can replace the losses by simply "overclocking" the reactor? What is this undefined "overclocking"? How much more power is generated? 10x as much? 100x as much? As far as I can see, the "overclocking" idea was simply a lazy writer way of handwaving a reason to carry a ton of fuel. It creates more problems than it solves.