Which has nothing to do with the X-boat network
Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
They did so by allowing vast amounts of local government
Before there were states there were territories, and your statement about the telegraph is debatable
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
I appreciate his analysis and there is a lot there to think about.
Why is his work any better than mine? Mine is based on 40 years of study rather than just looking at what MgT authors have published.
How do I see the Imperium?
It began as a corporate state overlayed with noble trappings, The moot is in effect a shareholders meeting for
as the Imperium expanded worlds were brought into the Imperium often by direct bribes to the rulers of the worlds in question, join the Imperium and become the
During the first 100 years of the Imperium they had jump three and could comfortable control worlds 12 parsecs from the nearest
So what is a noble and a noble family? They have a title but their true power comes from their shareholding in Cleon Industries and other megacorporations, the titles are just a veneer, or at least they were. Over time they started to wallow in their own self importance and granduer.
I am a firm believer that the autonomy granted to frontier worlds is not replicated on the worlds closer to the core for the simple reason that the worlds closer to the core have been fully Imperialised for over eight hundred years.
The Imperiem has three tiers of authority - the nobility (Emperor at the top), the ministries (Emperor at the top) and the military (Emperor as commander in chief)
Due to the distance and communication lag time then worlds much beyond the twenty four parsec radius must have those three authorities able to make decisions without consulting the Emperor, which means the local noble, ministry chief or military command have to have the autonomy and authority. But they do this in the Emperor's name, using rules, regulations, laws and customs as dictated by the Imperial sea.
And this is where the problem of who does what comes up.
By the time you are 44 weeks for central authority, and 8 to 12 weeks from local authority, you have to be able to make decisions.
Last edited:
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Using British laws and customs, which is why many exBritish Empire countries still use British judicial, electoral and educational structures.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
So give examples instead of cryptic comments.
actionman
Emperor Mongoose
CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
I need to watch that again sometime.
actionman
Emperor Mongoose
I think it would be a great project to write your TU as a pdf or ebook, then put it on Drivethru under the TAS program. If it addresses the inconsistencies and contradictions in official lore in the context of an ATU for people to use, it could be great. Consider Forgotten Realms, that was an alternate setting for D&D, and it went on to be extremely popular.
I should do that myself, really. I could put my ATU up on Drivethru as pay what you want, and if it brings even one person some fun Traveller gaming then that will be worth it.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Then debate. Find facts and contribute.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
How can communication and control not have anything to do withthe xboat network?
Before there was an xboat network there were couriers, trade lanes, government communication packets etc. The jump 4 civilian communication network was added on top of the already existing trade and communication network, the government, military, ministries, megacorporations all have their own comms.
Last edited:
actionman
Emperor Mongoose
More thoughts on the topic of Imperial governance:
For all the times the MgT 2e books stated that Imperial worlds had a "large degree of autonomy", and that nobles hold worlds as fiefs, and that nobles govern, etc., there were also contradictory statements saying that Imperial worlds were independent, nobles don't get involved in the affairs of the worlds they're assign to, and so on. It's quite maddening, and I wish Mongoose would stop making contradictory statements like this. I know I can do whatever I want IMTU, but I consider it vitally important to have some common understanding with other Travellers of what the official TU is like.
So, more thoughts.
It appears to me that the Imperial nobles were never powerful on their own resources, since their power rested on the support of the Imperial Navy, which was loyal to the Emperor. Most planetary populations were incorporated into the 3I whether they liked it or not, and populations who pay taxes to a foreign monarch under threat of military enforcement should they fail to do so aren't a firm foundation for an Imperial noble to build a power base on. The planetary governments had their own armies and their own fleets, and nobles had only their household forces, the funding for which came from taxes paid by these same planetary governments. Only the power of the Imperial Navy kept planetary governments from laughing in their fiefholders' faces.
Unlike historical examples of feudalism, Imperial fiefholding nobles don't have the control of populations, resources, and military forces necessary to challenge the Emperor or insist on noble rights and privileges. We know that Imperial fiefholding nobles collect taxes and rent the land, which probably makes them extremely rich, but which doesn't give them control or ownership of planetary businesses or assets (unless they buy them, which probably happens a lot), or the right to conscript soldiers, or to intervene in planetary government functions unless they violate Imperial law. To build up forces powerful enough to challenge even the subsector duke, they'd have to use their wealth gained from taxing their fiefs to recruit mercenaries, raise household troops, and buy or build fleets. Such a military buildup would be ruinously expensive and would not go unnoticed. The subsector duke could quite reasonably accuse the fiefholder of treason, enlist the support of the sector duke, and then the fiefholder building up his forces would have to face the full might of the named sector fleets.
The same difficulties would face a subsector duke. Now, a sector duke would theoretically have the best chance at amassing the required forces to resist the Emperor's will or insist on noble rights and privileges, but if the sector fleet admirals are loyal to the Emperor (which by all counts they should be), they'll turn on him even though the sector duke is their immediate superior commander.
I guess wealth comes from a fief, but power comes from the support of the Emperor and the Imperial system. The Emperor is simply not dependent on his vassals to provide him with military strength, and Imperial forces paid for by and loyal to the Iridium Throne vastly overpower anything the dukes of the realm could raise individually. It looks to me that the feudal quality of the 3I involves administering worlds as service rather than providing military forces. The only military forces that belong to nobles alone are their huscarles and household forces, and any fleets they might raise at their own expense. The Emperor can require the service of these household forces as a feudal obligation, but they're a tiny fraction of the strength of the Imperial Navy, which is "the Emperor's own sabre".
An example of this in Crusader Kings 2 is when I was getting tired of my vassals' constant nonsense, so I used a money cheat, hired all the mercenaries I could, and slapped them all down. It's like that, I guess. The 3I still feudal, but the balance of power is weighted decisively toward the Iridium Throne.
Something else I didn't mention in my previous posts on this topic is that the Imperial Army is "organized" at the subsector and sector level. The books I have don't mention specifically who controls what, but given that "...subsector navies are to some degree instruments of the nobility that manage a given subsector", pg 13 Third Imperium, I'm guessing that the subsector duke has executive authority over subsector Imperial Army elements as well, and the sector duke has executive authority of Imperial Army elements at the sector level. A reasonable conclusion is the subsector duke can use his subsector's Imperial Army assets until the sector duke requires them (which he won't until there's a major war).
The army is the lifeblood of the Imperial military. Each world recruits its own army from the native population. When called upon, these planetary armies unite into a cohesive military force pg 12, Third Imperium.
Unlike planetary navies, armies are expected to contribute to the greater Imperial Army, sharing certain methodologies, technological standards, tactics and traditions. Pg 24, Third Imperium.
Individual worlds are still encouraged to raise their own armies but the joint-command structure at Capital, and subordinate commands in each sector and subsector, have a much more active role in the maintenance, standardisation and training of planetary armies. Pg 26, Third Imperium.
Imperial Army units are configured at the subsector level pg 26, Third Imperium.
It seems like the planetary governments hold all the cards on their own worlds, but if they resist Imperial law or treat their Imperial fiefholders roughly (treason!), they'll suffer grievously once the subsector fleet and massed formations of the subsector's Imperial Army elements are brought to bear. It occurs to me that planetary populations may not have much of a feeling of solidarity with each other, and that planetary army units might be all too happy to bring rebellious neighbors to heel under the banner of the Imperial starburst, especially if there's loot to be had, lucrative reconstruction contracts, or others incentives.
Unlike historical examples, Imperial nobles don't involve themselves in the 'low justice' of the planetary poors. Imperial nobles only concern themselves with the 'high justice' so to speak of Imperial law and subsector law. This lets the poors flap about however they want without interfering with the nobility's extraction of wealth from their worlds, or, more importantly, being able to blame the Imperium and its nobles for the problems on their worlds.
There's an idea here that I'm not expressing clearly. It's the way colonial powers allow "self-rule" or even "independence" for provinces but still retain great control through various forms of unobtrusive semi-hidden influence. In the context of the 3I, when people are upset about conditions on their worlds, they can change governments to whatever they want, they can balkanize, they can have revolutions and revolts until they're blue in the face, and it's all the fault of their own planetary governments, not the Imperium. Through it all, the Emperor and the nobility keep extracting wealth from the world while the poors kill each other, and if the unrest starts interfering with that, then Imperial fiefholder can request military support from the subsector duke and compel the factions in conflict to form a working government or else. What or else? Imperial law is vague, so leaders of the factions contributing to the unrest could be brought up on charges of interfering with trade (by damaging the planet's economic output) or treason (by ruining an Imperial world and harming Imperial subjects through their partisan violence). If the leaders refuse to stop the violence and negotiate, then the household forces of the noble fiefholder, the subsector fleet, the subsector formations of the Imperial Army, and even the household forces of nearby fiefholders will put a quick, violent, and decisive end to the unrest. Then the fiefholder can rule directly with the Imperial Army at his back for however long it takes for the planetary poors to get an acceptable government together.
(Regarding nobles) Political roles are not out of the question. pg 47, Third Imperium
A world with a captive government or military rule often has an occupying army present. In some cases, a high-ranking officer in the Imperial Army is the military governor of the world, although the role may be held by an officer of the Imperial Navy or an appointed civilian administrator (the noble fiefholder?) who serves as a proxy for the military. Pg 28 Third Imperium.
A world under military rule is sometimes governed by a nearby star system, which may install a local representative to administer it pg 28, Third Imperium. (This would surely chafe a world's population, to be occupied by its neighbor backed by the subsector duke because it couldn't get its act together. Its neighbor would probably take the opportunity to take a big fat cut of the gross planetary product for its trouble, after paying the world's fiefholder his rightful due).
Anyway, there's plenty of adventure opportunities in these possibilities.
For all the times the MgT 2e books stated that Imperial worlds had a "large degree of autonomy", and that nobles hold worlds as fiefs, and that nobles govern, etc., there were also contradictory statements saying that Imperial worlds were independent, nobles don't get involved in the affairs of the worlds they're assign to, and so on. It's quite maddening, and I wish Mongoose would stop making contradictory statements like this. I know I can do whatever I want IMTU, but I consider it vitally important to have some common understanding with other Travellers of what the official TU is like.
So, more thoughts.
It appears to me that the Imperial nobles were never powerful on their own resources, since their power rested on the support of the Imperial Navy, which was loyal to the Emperor. Most planetary populations were incorporated into the 3I whether they liked it or not, and populations who pay taxes to a foreign monarch under threat of military enforcement should they fail to do so aren't a firm foundation for an Imperial noble to build a power base on. The planetary governments had their own armies and their own fleets, and nobles had only their household forces, the funding for which came from taxes paid by these same planetary governments. Only the power of the Imperial Navy kept planetary governments from laughing in their fiefholders' faces.
Unlike historical examples of feudalism, Imperial fiefholding nobles don't have the control of populations, resources, and military forces necessary to challenge the Emperor or insist on noble rights and privileges. We know that Imperial fiefholding nobles collect taxes and rent the land, which probably makes them extremely rich, but which doesn't give them control or ownership of planetary businesses or assets (unless they buy them, which probably happens a lot), or the right to conscript soldiers, or to intervene in planetary government functions unless they violate Imperial law. To build up forces powerful enough to challenge even the subsector duke, they'd have to use their wealth gained from taxing their fiefs to recruit mercenaries, raise household troops, and buy or build fleets. Such a military buildup would be ruinously expensive and would not go unnoticed. The subsector duke could quite reasonably accuse the fiefholder of treason, enlist the support of the sector duke, and then the fiefholder building up his forces would have to face the full might of the named sector fleets.
The same difficulties would face a subsector duke. Now, a sector duke would theoretically have the best chance at amassing the required forces to resist the Emperor's will or insist on noble rights and privileges, but if the sector fleet admirals are loyal to the Emperor (which by all counts they should be), they'll turn on him even though the sector duke is their immediate superior commander.
I guess wealth comes from a fief, but power comes from the support of the Emperor and the Imperial system. The Emperor is simply not dependent on his vassals to provide him with military strength, and Imperial forces paid for by and loyal to the Iridium Throne vastly overpower anything the dukes of the realm could raise individually. It looks to me that the feudal quality of the 3I involves administering worlds as service rather than providing military forces. The only military forces that belong to nobles alone are their huscarles and household forces, and any fleets they might raise at their own expense. The Emperor can require the service of these household forces as a feudal obligation, but they're a tiny fraction of the strength of the Imperial Navy, which is "the Emperor's own sabre".
An example of this in Crusader Kings 2 is when I was getting tired of my vassals' constant nonsense, so I used a money cheat, hired all the mercenaries I could, and slapped them all down. It's like that, I guess. The 3I still feudal, but the balance of power is weighted decisively toward the Iridium Throne.
Something else I didn't mention in my previous posts on this topic is that the Imperial Army is "organized" at the subsector and sector level. The books I have don't mention specifically who controls what, but given that "...subsector navies are to some degree instruments of the nobility that manage a given subsector", pg 13 Third Imperium, I'm guessing that the subsector duke has executive authority over subsector Imperial Army elements as well, and the sector duke has executive authority of Imperial Army elements at the sector level. A reasonable conclusion is the subsector duke can use his subsector's Imperial Army assets until the sector duke requires them (which he won't until there's a major war).
The army is the lifeblood of the Imperial military. Each world recruits its own army from the native population. When called upon, these planetary armies unite into a cohesive military force pg 12, Third Imperium.
Unlike planetary navies, armies are expected to contribute to the greater Imperial Army, sharing certain methodologies, technological standards, tactics and traditions. Pg 24, Third Imperium.
Individual worlds are still encouraged to raise their own armies but the joint-command structure at Capital, and subordinate commands in each sector and subsector, have a much more active role in the maintenance, standardisation and training of planetary armies. Pg 26, Third Imperium.
Imperial Army units are configured at the subsector level pg 26, Third Imperium.
It seems like the planetary governments hold all the cards on their own worlds, but if they resist Imperial law or treat their Imperial fiefholders roughly (treason!), they'll suffer grievously once the subsector fleet and massed formations of the subsector's Imperial Army elements are brought to bear. It occurs to me that planetary populations may not have much of a feeling of solidarity with each other, and that planetary army units might be all too happy to bring rebellious neighbors to heel under the banner of the Imperial starburst, especially if there's loot to be had, lucrative reconstruction contracts, or others incentives.
Unlike historical examples, Imperial nobles don't involve themselves in the 'low justice' of the planetary poors. Imperial nobles only concern themselves with the 'high justice' so to speak of Imperial law and subsector law. This lets the poors flap about however they want without interfering with the nobility's extraction of wealth from their worlds, or, more importantly, being able to blame the Imperium and its nobles for the problems on their worlds.
There's an idea here that I'm not expressing clearly. It's the way colonial powers allow "self-rule" or even "independence" for provinces but still retain great control through various forms of unobtrusive semi-hidden influence. In the context of the 3I, when people are upset about conditions on their worlds, they can change governments to whatever they want, they can balkanize, they can have revolutions and revolts until they're blue in the face, and it's all the fault of their own planetary governments, not the Imperium. Through it all, the Emperor and the nobility keep extracting wealth from the world while the poors kill each other, and if the unrest starts interfering with that, then Imperial fiefholder can request military support from the subsector duke and compel the factions in conflict to form a working government or else. What or else? Imperial law is vague, so leaders of the factions contributing to the unrest could be brought up on charges of interfering with trade (by damaging the planet's economic output) or treason (by ruining an Imperial world and harming Imperial subjects through their partisan violence). If the leaders refuse to stop the violence and negotiate, then the household forces of the noble fiefholder, the subsector fleet, the subsector formations of the Imperial Army, and even the household forces of nearby fiefholders will put a quick, violent, and decisive end to the unrest. Then the fiefholder can rule directly with the Imperial Army at his back for however long it takes for the planetary poors to get an acceptable government together.
(Regarding nobles) Political roles are not out of the question. pg 47, Third Imperium
A world with a captive government or military rule often has an occupying army present. In some cases, a high-ranking officer in the Imperial Army is the military governor of the world, although the role may be held by an officer of the Imperial Navy or an appointed civilian administrator (the noble fiefholder?) who serves as a proxy for the military. Pg 28 Third Imperium.
A world under military rule is sometimes governed by a nearby star system, which may install a local representative to administer it pg 28, Third Imperium. (This would surely chafe a world's population, to be occupied by its neighbor backed by the subsector duke because it couldn't get its act together. Its neighbor would probably take the opportunity to take a big fat cut of the gross planetary product for its trouble, after paying the world's fiefholder his rightful due).
Anyway, there's plenty of adventure opportunities in these possibilities.
Last edited:
I agree entirely and I’ll add that the citizens of the Imperium probably think of themselves as citizens of their home world 1st, their Subsector 2nd, their sector 3rd, possibly their domain 4th than finally the Imperium. That’s not to say they will not identify themselves as imperium citizens it’s just the imperium is such a distant thing. I also suspect that many Nobels have acquired significant influence thanks to their money.
Your description also works well with the rebellion since the factions were largely based on ArchDukes who are essentially second only to the emperor and have corresponding more power.
Another thing people keep missing is governments are often confusing and operate in counter dictating ways.
MaxTac Transfer
Banded Mongoose
What you describe is one of the many reasons I flushed the OTU down the toilet. And pulled twice. I still use the maps and tech (mostly, both get some changes ie the TL15/Starport A/100 people things screamed once in terror and then fell silent) but dropped both the Imperial British Airwastes in SPAAAACE and Uncle Strephons Misguided Children into a convenient Black Hole where they now play poker with Dr. Reinhardt and Maximilian)
It is simply "to many cooks for to long a time" and the stew has gone cold a couple of times so it tastes funny and people end up with food poisoning on occasions. So it is time to send Boxer to the errr Animal Hospital, yes that is what we will call it and start over
It is simply "to many cooks for to long a time" and the stew has gone cold a couple of times so it tastes funny and people end up with food poisoning on occasions. So it is time to send Boxer to the errr Animal Hospital, yes that is what we will call it and start over
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Excellent analysis actionman - it just proves how contradictory the current Third Imperium authors are about the Imperium. Is this by design or...
Here are some questions I still struggle with after all these years.
Why doe Norris have to go through the pantomime of pretending to be seriously ill or dead while he and his team (PCs?) go after the warrant?
Conclusion - subsector dukes can not command Imperial military assets in times of war with external major powers. Is Norris' rank as an admiral due to his ducal status since he didn't reach that rank during active service?
Who was commanding Imperial Army assests to put down the rebellion on Efate. Was that Norris or was it already taken out of his hands?
Who commands the Ministries at the world - subsector - sector level?
Here are some questions I still struggle with after all these years.
Why doe Norris have to go through the pantomime of pretending to be seriously ill or dead while he and his team (PCs?) go after the warrant?
Conclusion - subsector dukes can not command Imperial military assets in times of war with external major powers. Is Norris' rank as an admiral due to his ducal status since he didn't reach that rank during active service?
Who was commanding Imperial Army assests to put down the rebellion on Efate. Was that Norris or was it already taken out of his hands?
Who commands the Ministries at the world - subsector - sector level?
Last edited:
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
More maddeningly the same author in the same book often makes this assertion.
And the Imperial Army. I don't subscribe to this individual worlds raise the Imperial Army, I think the army is enlisted from the core worlds and then stationed far from home. Anyone who enlists in the Imperial Army in the Spinward marches is likely to find themselves serving in Corridor or even further afield.
If I am filthy rich I can begin buying land, property rights and industries on the world I am named as subsector duke of. After a thousand years my family is going to own the world, or at least the bits that make money.
I wonder how much of the Imperial taxation is the subsector duke's kickback? How much does the sector duke then skim off the top?
All the more reason for sector dukes to keep subsector dukes in competition with each other...
It is notocable that during the Rebellion period an awful lot of Imperial forced did exactly as they were ordered to by Emperor Lucan.
I have yet to see a treatment of the Imperial Army that does it justice. Too much fanon too little canon and a lack of expertise in military logistics.
I do not believe this. I believe there is a standing Imperial Army you can enlist in from any world in the Imperium, just like the Navy, and that this army is then bolstered by requisitioned planetary armies and mercenaries. One reason - logistics.
I don't think the author has much of a background in military logistics.
All previous canon agrees that the Imperial Army of 1105 is equipped to TL15 standard, with a very limited relic of TL14 forces. The logistics of a TL11 world in the Imperium training its Army to TL15 standards...
It reminds me more and more of the EU every day.
I would argue that the subsector duke is above any planetary law and interprets Imperial law to their own advantage, within limits constrained by their neighbouring dukes and the subsector duke.
Sort of like the EU but with its own military...
So now nobles are only political sometimes? So what the dickens are they the rest of the time? Estate managers and gamekeepers?
The Imperium has a very low tolerance for worlds invading other worlds, or military coups brought about by external forces
I quote:
" The government on Quiru is a military junta which is the result of a mercenary operation. Imperial force has not yet been brought to bear."1105
Then there is the ongoing situation on Vilis and Garda Vilis.
The Imperium forbids this and would intervene, interdiction followed by "re-education"
There would be a lot more if we were told how it actually works.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Trying to control military units beyond the domain level is probably too laggy, and even on the sector wide scale is going to be difficult.
Civilian control would mean that the Imperium bureaucracy answers to the Imperium viceroy in the form of the sector duke, and we'll assume that subsector dukes are the equivalent of governors.
The viceroy and governors could tell the Imperium military, within their territories, what to do, but probably have some leeway as to interpret these instructions, even to the point of disobedience, but they probably need to have a really good reason to do that.
An imperial warrant or commission could slip the governors and viceroys directly into the military chain of command, whether conditionally or unconditionally, in which case, that leeway disappears.
Civilian control would mean that the Imperium bureaucracy answers to the Imperium viceroy in the form of the sector duke, and we'll assume that subsector dukes are the equivalent of governors.
The viceroy and governors could tell the Imperium military, within their territories, what to do, but probably have some leeway as to interpret these instructions, even to the point of disobedience, but they probably need to have a really good reason to do that.
An imperial warrant or commission could slip the governors and viceroys directly into the military chain of command, whether conditionally or unconditionally, in which case, that leeway disappears.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Eight to twelve weeks lag. And that assumes you can find the fleet you want to send the orders to.
How extensive is the bureaucracy, the Ministries etc?
Does a duke wear many hats - viceroy, rear admiral, brigadier...
What is the difference between a Dux, viceroy and governor? I asked Copilot to summarise:
" Role and Authority of a Dux
- Military Commander: The term "Dux" is Latin for "leader" or "general." During the Roman Republic and early Empire, a Dux was anyone who commanded troops, including both Roman generals and foreign leaders.
- Command of Troops: A Dux typically commanded two or more legions and was responsible for military operations. This could involve leading an expeditionary force or managing detachments from regular military formations2.
- Administrative Role: By the 3rd century AD, the role of a Dux evolved to include administrative duties, often working alongside Roman governors. They had significant military authority, sometimes even beyond the borders of a single province2.
- Autonomy: Unlike provincial governors (praesides), whose authority was confined to civil and military matters within their provinces, a Dux could operate independently and handle military matters without needing approval from the governor.
A viceroy is a high-ranking official who governs a country or province as the representative of the monarch. Here's a summary of their role and authority:
Role and Authority of a Viceroy
- Representation of the Monarch: The viceroy acts on behalf of the monarch, making decisions and governing in the monarch's name.
- Administrative Powers: Viceroys have extensive administrative responsibilities, including the collection of royal revenues, enforcement of laws, and appointment of colonial officials.
- Military Command: In some cases, viceroys also have military authority, overseeing defense and security matters.
- Ceremonial Role: The viceroy often serves a symbolic role, representing the royal authority and maintaining the prestige of the monarchy.
- Limitations: Despite their authority, viceroys' powers can be limited by other colonial officials and regulations from the home government.
Role and Authority of a Governor
- Executive Authority: Governors typically have executive powers within their designated area, such as a state, province, or territory. They enforce laws, implement government policies, and oversee the administration.
- Legislative Interaction: They often work with the legislative branch, signing bills into law or vetoing them. In some systems, they can call special legislative sessions.
- Judicial Appointments: Governors may have the authority to appoint judges and other officials, influencing the judicial landscape of their region.
- Economic Oversight: They manage budgets, allocate resources, and sometimes have the power to introduce economic initiatives to stimulate growth.
- Public Safety and Welfare: Governors play a crucial role in ensuring public safety, managing emergency responses, and overseeing public health and welfare programs.
- Diplomatic and Ceremonial Roles: They represent their region in diplomatic matters and participate in ceremonial functions, fostering a sense of unity and pride.
Specific Powers:
- Appointing Officials: They often appoint heads of various departments and agencies within their jurisdiction.
- Granting Pardons: In many systems, governors have the authority to grant pardons or reprieves to individuals convicted of crimes.
- National Guard Control: In the United States, for example, governors can call upon the National Guard for assistance during emergencies."
More importantly the Admirals and generls would have orders from the sector or higher level that take precedence over a subsector duke in certain situations.
An Imperial Warrant gives the bearer the same authority as the Emperor - see Agent of the Imperium.
actionman
Emperor Mongoose
I know, I know.
I would do it differently as well. I'd have the Imperial Army funded and raised solely by the Iridium Throne. There are plenty of miserable backwater planets where people would jump at the chance to do a term if meant leaving their dead end world forever. Where I differ is that IMTU I would raise and train troops at the subsector level (so I won't waste time and money transporting them if they wash out or get injured), train them at a central subsector Imperial Army training base/depot, then transfer troops to units garrisoned in other subsectors. I would make sure that units were made up of troops from different worlds, so Imperial Army culture and standard Galanglic would be predominant (somewhat similar to the French Foreign Legion. People with many languages and cultures would adapt and conform through indoctrination, social and disciplinary pressure, and the natural tendency of human beings to go along to get along). In MgT 2e, the Core sector has its share of problems and unrest, and the Imperial Army would be wise to garrison the Core sector with troops from other places. Historically, the USSR was good at this. If there were unrest in Kazakhstan, it would be put down with troops from Russia. If there were unrest in Russia, it would be put down with troops from Kazakhstan.
Another thing I'd do if it were up to me is make terms 10 years long, so I don't use up a quarter of a soldier's term in training and transportation to his first unit.
Absolutely. That noble family would own everything worth owning, hire local managers to do the unpleasant task of managing the poors, and be rich enough to swing elections and generally make sure the planetary government works hand in glove with the noble fiefholder family to make sure taxes are paid and the noble family and the planetary elite get richer and richer.
IMTU it's always been 10 percent. The planetary government collects 10 percent of the world's GDP for the fiefholder (and whatever else the planetary government needs to run itself; another way making sure the planetary government doesn't have that much money to raise powerful armies and fleets). The planetary fiefholders pay the subsector duke 10 percent of what he collects, the subsector dukes pay 10 percent of what they collect to the sector duke, the sector dukes pay 10 percent to the domain archdukes, and the archdukes pay 10 percent of what they get to the Emperor. I've never calculated this out, and it might be a stupid idea.
Or, it could be that each planet pays 10 percent of its GDP to the Iridium Throne, and each level of fiefholder skims 1 percent off the top, so 1% for the world fiefholder, 1% for the subsector duke, 1% for the sector duke, 1% for the domain archduke, and 96% for the Iridium Throne. Or 10% at each fiefholder level, and the Throne gets 50%.
Or, it could be the fiefholders tax and rent lands at whatever they want as long as the Throne gets 10% of each world's GDP.
IMO it would be driven by who funds what. If the Throne is paying for the Imperial military and bureaucracy, it's going to want more money. If fiefholders have legitimate reasons for needing more money (maintaining household troops of a strength to deal with realistic threats on the world or the subsector, paying for fiefholder operations, incentives for administering miserable backwards worlds, etc.) then fiefholders at every level would get more.
Absolutely, so when a duke gets ambitions, his fellow dukes won't come to his aid when the Emperor sends the IN to arrest him for treason.
Someone should make a Traveller total conversion mod for Crusader Kings 2. Then we could get a real taste of feudal shenanigans in a Traveller context.
Agreed. The Throne needs its army to be loyal to it alone. Though I think Imperial Army units would be raised and stationed in their home sectors, because of transportation time and costs. Planetary armies, mercenaries, and huscarles / noble household troops would perform internal security during peacetime and be the first line of defense during wartime. The Imperial Army would take over once it has mobilized and moved to the war zone.
IMTU: There are strong Imperial Army units in every subsector, strong enough to take down several middling planets at once or cause severe damage to one high population high tech world, and that's without the support of the Imperial Navy. With Navy support, it's over before it begins, but the IN can't be everywhere, so the Imperial Army is always ready to fight unsupported. There is at least one Salusa Secundus type world in each subsector, and multiple Imperial Army training bases for different environments. The Imperial Army doesn't have the glamor and fame of the Imperial Marines, but Imperial Army units pride themselves on being tougher because they endure long term deployments to the full range of horrible planetary environments with only a fraction of the support Imperial Marines receive. An Imperial Marine drops from the sky, clad in battledress with his FGMP blazing, accomplishes his objectives, and leaves. An Imperial Army soldier becomes one with the environment, speaks multiple languages, deals with the indigenous poors, and is capable of doing a great deal with relatively little support for years on end. Stoicism is a primary virtue of the Imperial Army IMTU.
Agreed, agreed, but people can't be experts in everything.
Combining planetary army units of varying languages, cultures, doctrine, and TL would be a nightmare. The comms wouldn't be interoperable. Troops would be untrained or barely trained on TL15 equipment, tactics, and doctrine. They'd have little or no experience conducting combined arms operations with Imperial Army and Imperial Navy elements. Planetary forces accustomed to keeping the local population in line would be completely unprepared to face front line elements of Solomani and Zhodani forces. The worst part is that getting everyone ready to operate with each other would cause delay after delay before the units could engage the enemy. Unless that doesn't matter to the Imperial Army, and planetary forces are used as cannon fodder. Maybe these structural problems contribute to why the Imperium has never made much progress against the Zhodani in the Marches and could only conquer a quarter of the Solomani Sphere despite its overwhelming numerical and industrial advantage.
I'll refrain from sharing any comments either way, since I don't want to derail this interesting discussion. Though I will say that the world is going through an upheaval. As the Chinese saying goes, "May you live in interesting times." I just hope that our fellow Travellers and their families stay safe.
Absolutely agreed. Attempting to enforce planetary law on an Imperial noble or his staff/troops/etc. could be construed as treason, although getting the support of Imperial assets would require explaining the whole business, which the noble involved may not want.
Idea: Since starports are under Imperial law and Imperial law doesn't deal with personal behavior, they could be absolute pits of vice, refuges for violators of planetary law, and so on. Startown could be a breath of fresh air compared to the no holds barred goings on in the Starport Special Tourism Zone. The Solomani aristocracy probably set it up that way so they could keep snorting mountains of "Terran Pearl" off of iridium platters (or worse) without having to care about pesky planetary laws. "Starport privileges" could be used to influence planetary movers and shakers. Starship crews, offworlders, and starport workers could be very popular people due to their access to the craziest clubs on the planet. Think of the stories: Amazing duty free shops. The top floor pleasure lounges of the Travellers' Aid Society. Bowls of "Terran Pearl" right on the bar. A stampeding K'Kree, too drunk to get the bag off his head. A Vargr so lit he's letting people lead him around on a leash for free drinks. The roughest toughest bouncers on the planet, backed up by Imperial Marines. It could be a reason why spacers do that job and travellers live that life. Every starport is a new crazy party, and they can't give up the lifestyle. This could lead to many patron connections. "Oh yeah, the Marquis of Fornice, I partied with him in the Iridium Club on Mora. Did you know he's a huge patron of the arts?"
Third Imperium states that the Imperium allows member worlds to invade each other in the context of "limited conquest". Only multi-world blocs and alliances are prohibited.
...the Imperium does allow limited conquest to occur between worlds. pg. 24 Third Imperium.
The word conquest carries the implication of keeping territory and spoils indefinitely, not just winning a war and extracting concessions. Hmmm, this could lead to centuries of bad blood, feuds, and revanchism between worlds.
I have a hard time with this design choice as well. One would think the Imperial fiefholder of the targeted world would be quite irate if his quiet life were interrupted by an invasion and crowds of poors rushing into his estate to find refuge and demanding that he "do something". I guess a way to interpret this is that this is one of the reasons the nobility work hard to prevent the poors from launching interplanetary invasions, and a reason why fiefholders maintain their own military forces. Merely positioning household ships above major cities would serve as a warning to hostile forces to steer clear or involve noble forces, and, by implication, Imperial forces. Or, complications with the invading world's fiefholder at the very least. Unless the invasion is his plan and serving his interests. The potential of noble house vs. noble house revenge and counter revenge runs very deep indeed. This creates many opportunities for well paid skullduggery at the traveller party level.
Armed conflicts between blocs of worlds or subsectors are forbidden pg. 11, Third Imperium.
Friction occurs between sectors of the Imperium, subsectors of each sector and often between worlds. In the latter case, squabbles can result in armed conflict, which are usually resolved by the parties involved without Imperial interference. pg 11, Third Imperium.
The Imperial government considers war between worlds as a necessary outlet. Of course if things start getting out of hand the subsector duke can invoke Imperial law and put an end to it, or pick a side and involve subsector Imperial forces.
Should a conflict escalate to war, it is not above the Imperium to pick sides. Assistance to one side or the other may sometimes be granted when it is deemed in the empire’s best interests. pg. 7, Third Imperium.
