Traveller OTU - Loves and Hates

[Lord High Munchkin]

Again that's partially a GM thing and part setting. "To boldly go..." is best left to that 2. rate show with the 3. rate Canadian Actor.

There actually are plenty of fine Canadian actors, some are so good at acting like US thespians that no one spots them (that said, you can spot the crap ones easily enough!).

 

[kafka]

Like

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Dislike

Not a detailed understanding of Interstellar Politics (borders shift and change, as do allegencies without resorting to War!)

Could you explain that further? We never get to see the "small scale" politics since the SM does not has them. "Gateway to Destiny" shows them for the Gateway setting and they are alive there
[/cut]

Gateway is one area where things are happening. As are Bush Wars in Far Frontiers and Foreven. However, for much of the rest of Chartered Space the borders are relatively static.

One would expect from a game with such a long history the notion of moving and permable borders. Lots of flash but not much bang. As it stands now, we have static empires lined up against each other.

So, overall, the history lacks the dynamic that would make adventuring more fun without going into the full fledged frontier or rebellion or war against all (Virus era). Take M:0 perfect example of lots of little conflicts needed to build an Empire...sure we get Imperial Squadrons doing what Trillion Credit did earlier but nowhere do we see this part of the tapistry of an unfolding story.

Overall low tech feel to the future

That's the GMs choice. The future has a lot of "background" high tech that the GM simply must visualise. I.e Traveller is a fully mature "grav tech" universe. Floating cities, nobles with a "travelling court" (or even court starship), three dimensional city grids for traffic (Think Sten or 5th Element). And the robots. They may not be AI but they have good personality simulators (Good enough for a Valet) so ships can actually be quite "smart". Some of the medizin (Universal Antidote) screams "Nanotech" and a lot of tech is extremly advanced once you look at it. Often it's a matter of the scenario. If you play "border planet of the week" than it's low tech

Yes, it is up to a Referee to embelish the future but it would help if there was some support for that from the game designer. Either as plot hooks to tell the player that they are not in Kansas anymore or just copius amounts of illustrated material that gives a different vibe or feeling. Right now, Traveller still does have an old timers feel to it.

Golden Age feel

What do you mean with that? Classical "man vs. the universe" setting?

No, it reflects the Science Fiction of the 1940s & 1950s rather than 1970s, 80s, 90s and now the 21st century. Some renovations have been added like more interesting tech but still has an older feel. The game has to feel current by staying one step ahead of the times in which it was published.

Lack of wonder conveyed through the products

Again that's partially a GM thing and part setting. "To boldly go..." is best left to that 2. rate show with the 3. rate Canadian Actor. Traveller has always been a bit "down to earth"

And, again, I think that a good game company should at least provide some of the inspiration to avoid the perspiration. Traveller seems not to have the things that draw people into it. Whither, it be visuals (art), sensory (inspiring text) or aura just a knowledge that some things have changed. Just as all Science Fiction aims to achieve.

Military emphasis/predominance

Can't see that. Sure guns have a bigger place in the sourcebook than butter. But overall Traveller is a "low military" setting that actually makes non-military/civilian campaigns easier than military ones.

I disagree. I see the military playing a bigger role in Traveller compared to the civilian careers. Yes, merchants, notwithstanding. It is not a game of exploration nor discover. Often enough, it is see new worlds meet the locals and kill them. Yes, a referee can avoid this pitfall but any player getting ahold of the main rulebook will see the guns rather than the butter. As a result, the games manufacturer, if they were earnest about creating adventures about the quest for butter would have more support for that mode of play.

 

[kafka]

<sorry double post for some reason>

 

[rust]

Can't see that. Sure guns have a bigger place in the sourcebook than butter. But overall Traveller is a "low military" setting that actually makes non-military/civilian campaigns easier than military ones.

The Central Supply Catalog has about 120 pages about weapons and ar-
mour and about 40 pages about all other fields of technology ... :wink:

 

[AndrewW]

I disagree. I see the military playing a bigger role in Traveller compared to the civilian careers. Yes, merchants, notwithstanding. It is not a game of exploration nor discover. Often enough, it is see new worlds meet the locals and kill them. Yes, a referee can avoid this pitfall but any player getting ahold of the main rulebook will see the guns rather than the butter. As a result, the games manufacturer, if they were earnest about creating adventures about the quest for butter would have more support for that mode of play.

Yes there is some support for the military style of play, there is Mercenary, High Guard, Fighting Ships and Military Vehicles, but then we also have Scouts, Psion (which does have some military careers so might be considered split), Agent, Scoundrel, Civilian Vehicles. I would consider the alien modules as supporting both. Central Supply Catalogue may have more weapons / armour then civilian stuff but that's normal enough as those are popular items and some of that is useful even outside the military, and it does have non military stuff as well (which can also be useful to a military style of play). I wouldn't say it has to be military orientated but the support is there for both styles of play, up to the referee and players.

 

[kafka]

I disagree. I see the military playing a bigger role in Traveller compared to the civilian careers. Yes, merchants, notwithstanding. It is not a game of exploration nor discover. Often enough, it is see new worlds meet the locals and kill them. Yes, a referee can avoid this pitfall but any player getting ahold of the main rulebook will see the guns rather than the butter. As a result, the games manufacturer, if they were earnest about creating adventures about the quest for butter would have more support for that mode of play.

Yes there is some support for the military style of play, there is Mercenary, High Guard, Fighting Ships and Military Vehicles, but then we also have Scouts, Psion (which does have some military careers so might be considered split), Agent, Scoundrel, Civilian Vehicles. I would consider the alien modules as supporting both. Central Supply Catalogue may have more weapons / armour then civilian stuff but that's normal enough as those are popular items and some of that is useful even outside the military, and it does have non military stuff as well (which can also be useful to a military style of play). I wouldn't say it has to be military orientated but the support is there for both styles of play, up to the referee and players.

Somebody & Lord, stop Hijacking the thread...to those who come after...plenty of time to discuss the merits of different actors in a separate thread...

Yes, there is support for both kinds of play but there is still a feeling we are dealing with Vets from the Imperial services when their services are no longer required to the game.

Players and scenarios other than some homegrown ones rarely deal with the investigation of new phenomena. Take Project Steel soon it lapses to a story when the calvary comes in. Although, I did like how the additional chapter sort of brought the element of exploration the first half of the adventure had even if it resorted to a MacGruffin.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Bah humbug!!! And you a Canadian....

 

[Klaus Kipling]

OTU Love:

District 268; conservative, as opposed to wacky, technology; Vilani; Hivers; Ancients (kinda); institutions and megacorps well defined.

OTU Hate:

UWPs, pages and pages of bare, useless, UWPs; every world settled; nonsense worlds; unfathomable worlds; 1-week in jump; lack of high tech options; gravitics coming in too early; not strange enough for so much history; too much cold war influence; static tech levels; too much emphasis on low tech worlds; the Rebellion - too many apocalyptic retconns of the setting; too many poor, often desperate names of worlds; too military centred; nobility everywhere; pointless flame-wars over irrelevant canon.

As you can see, I've decided I really dislike the straight jacket of the OTU. I do, however, really love Traveller. I think a lot of the good things that have been placed in the OTU are actually fairly generic sci-fi staples, and overall, as the map, and even history of the place has been totally filled in, there is very little for a gamer to do in it, or a ref to set stuff, unless he radically alters it - and then it may as well be fairly generic.

The good thing about the OGL is that we can write interesting adventures in a generic way yet have them totally compatible with the OTU, which would help sales of any such product.

 

[Enpeze]

Like:
-1 week jumps
-simple and easy to understand 2D maps
-story-arc: Humans vs. Vilani
-Space Trading
-imperium
-psionic


Mild Dislike:
-Aliens - I would better like more "exotic" life forms. All this "humaniti" story is more like cheesy Star Trek than good hard SciFi.
-uncreative technology: eg. only one way of Hyperspace Travel, where are the Aliens with Nano-plasmaweb-artillery?


Strong Dislike:
-Imperium is way too big
-not much exploring (where is the far frontier no man has gone before?)
-almost no mystery factor
-UWP Wtf?
-too different techniveaus on nearby planets (in this extent its IMO very unlogical in a interstellar space trader society)
-too few "iconics" (like universal fashion style, imperial uniforms, gear and cultural symbols)
-canon fanatics

Ambivalent:
-story arc ancients
-only one important planet per system


All in all IMO, the traveller universe should be much smaller (who needs 5000 planets? 500 planets are more than enough to enable play every thinkable SF story), but more creative, flexible and iconic. It should have more common and visible prominent elements and fewer fake diversity.
And it should have many more elements of mystery and exploration.

 

[kafka]

Actually "Humanitii" works quite well as presented in older editions. The races are different enough to make "playabel aliens" and that in turn allows the real aliens to become pure NPC/really alien without the need for the "imperial Aslan/Vagr/Droyn/Hiver/Kkree" crutch

(1) Not sure when (if) Mongoose will do the equivalent to GT:Humaniti but until then the book is recommended.

No, no. G:T Humaniti has some merit which it stole off the HWIG and GDW products - like the Darrians, Answerin, Yileans and Syleans but most of it is complete drivel.

If Mongoose would produce something that bad, I would burn the whole Mongoose collection in my basement and become a CT/MT fanatic.

 

[Enpeze]

I miss Gucky, the mouse-beaver. I mean THIS is an alien!

No seriously, its not that I would stop to buy MGT if they release humaniti sourcebooks. Its not MGs fault. The design began to exist many years before and was possibly influenced by mimicking bad Star Trek habits. (where the typical alien is a human with a different forehead or strange ears!)

 

[rust]

For me GURPS Traveller Humaniti is a mixed bag, with some good and
some uninteresting ideas. For example, I liked the Nexxies, but had no
use at all for the Azhanti.
All in all, the only GURPS Traveller book about races that I really liked
was the one about Droyne and Hivers, an interesting attempt to describe
races that are truly alien.

As for Mousebeavers, even the authors of that series made sure that
this pesky race became extinct ... :twisted:

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Getting back to the military emphasis...

Im not sure which rpg doesnt have a military emphasis. Combat is usually the meat of any system, surely. Wouldnt you prefer a militarized society if you knew ninja lions wanted to eat your liver?

Every rpg game Ive ever played has an emphasis on the military, on weaponry and martial arms. Name me a major rpg that doesnt. (Ive never played WoD games, I freely, and proudly, admit, so I dont know what the deal is there).

 

[rust]

Name me a major rpg that doesnt.

Agone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agone

 

[iainjcoleman]

Name me a major rpg that doesnt.

Agone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agone

This must be some new definition of the word "major" that I was not previously aware of.

 

[rust]

This must be some new definition of the word "major" that I was not previously aware of.

Depends a lot on where you live. Believe it or not, there is a world beyond
the English speaking regions. :wink:

There are more than 30 books and supplements for Agone, it has been
translated into at least two other languages - if this is not sufficient to be
a major game, Mongoose Traveller is a minor one.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Maybe I should have said 'a major rpg with sales over a thousand copies...'

 

[rust]

Maybe I should have said 'a major rpg with sales over a thousand copies...'

Even then Agone would easily qualify - provided that copies in its
original language count.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

From the wiki about Agone...

'Most will hold offices of nobility or military status.'

:?

 

[rust]

'Most will hold offices of nobility or military status.'

Yep, but their job is to govern, not to fight.