Tourney, home of cheese

[Nightmares about Minbari]

OK, there's a lot of talk about cheesy fleets appearing in tournements.

But maybe that is the point of a competitive system, to take the rule book and squeeze whatever advantage you can out of it?

If you start to restrict fleets that you consider cheesy, then who decides what is and isn't allowed?

Tournies are not friendly games, not campaigns, they are entirely focused on winning, and players should be free to do whatever they can within the rules to win.

Personally I don't play tourney games, circumstances are such that I don't have the option, but I think that they serve a good purpose as a home for the victory obsessed.

 

[Burger]

You're wrong, tournaments are friendly and fun, at least the ones I've been to. Even when there are prizes up for grabs, everyone does their best to make the games enjoyable for everyone: even reminding your opponent of rules they've forgotten (eg. "hey you know if you do that SA with your scout you won't be able to use its scout trait?").

But, there is no challenge or skill or fun involved in reading "10x Sag is teh uber fleet" on the forums, and winning with it.

 

[Tank]

NAM thats harsh, I couldnt possibly be victory obssessed but the tourneys do bring together a diverse range of ACTA players and the only tourney I have so far been to was quite a friendly affair

 

[Reaverman]

You're wrong, tournaments are friendly and fun, at least the ones I've been to. Even when there are prizes up for grabs, everyone does their best to make the games enjoyable for everyone: even reminding your opponent of rules they've forgotten (eg. "hey you know if you do that SA with your scout you won't be able to use its scout trait?").

Appart from one opponet I played...god did he whine

WaaWaa...thats not 45 degrees

WaaWaa...You blew up my smegging tinashi with one raid ship

WaaWaa...I want to run away

Nah, just kidding Burger is right. Most of the time its all fun.

Why not have a seperate competition, just for Saggs though?

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

Not meaning to insult anyone, actually trying to be inclusive. Just trying to make the point that those who see wargames as an interlectual challenge, trying to get the best out of a rule system to achieve victory shouldn't be excluded from ACTA, and that tourney format is perfect for them. Not everyone who plays tourney games is like this, of course, but surely you shouldn't exclude those who wargame for these reasons?

 

[Burger]

Why not have a seperate competition, just for Saggs though?

That would be every tourney, if the OP were correct!

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

Personally would rather see the 'perfect' tourney fleet evolve over time. Currently 10 sag is riding high, but that will change as new tactics come about, isn't it going to be interesting to see what will beat it regularly?

 

[Burger]

Just trying to make the point that those who see wargames as an interlectual challenge, trying to get the best out of a rule system to achieve victory shouldn't be excluded from ACTA, and that tourney format is perfect for them.

Maybe I'm missing something here but where is the intellectual challenge in taking 10x Sag? I agree with what you're saying, but the Sag having these stats, just blows the theory out of the water.

Personally would rather see the 'perfect' tourney fleet evolve over time. Currently 10 sag is riding high, but that will change as new tactics come about, isn't it going to be interesting to see what will beat it regularly?

What tactics? Nothing will beat it regularly IMO apart from a Vorlon heavy (or Light in Armageddon) Cruiser, killing a few and jumping out when it can't take the incoming damage.

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

Now that it's been talked to death and anybody who's looked at virtually any thread on this forum knows about the 10 sag fleet, there's no challenge involved at all.

But for the first guy who came up with it, surely it was an achievement?

 

[Reaverman]

Just trying to make the point that those who see wargames as an interlectual challenge, trying to get the best out of a rule system to achieve victory shouldn't be excluded from ACTA, and that tourney format is perfect for them.

Maybe I'm missing something here but where is the intellectual challenge in taking 10x Sag? I agree with what you're saying, but the Sag having these stats, just blows the theory out of the water.

Personally would rather see the 'perfect' tourney fleet evolve over time. Currently 10 sag is riding high, but that will change as new tactics come about, isn't it going to be interesting to see what will beat it regularly?

What tactics? Nothing will beat it regularly IMO apart from a Vorlon heavy (or Light in Armageddon) Cruiser, killing a few and jumping out when it can't take the incoming damage.

Sagg fleets require little Tactics, its just point and shoot. The other player on the other hand, has a mammoth task.

 

[Burger]

Now that it's been talked to death and anybody who's looked at virtually any thread on this forum knows about the 10 sag fleet, there's no challenge involved at all.

But for the first guy who came up with it, surely it was an achievement?

Not really, anyone who's played the Zerg will think of it instantly.
If it were a balanced fleet with ships of different types from different priority levels, and it was virtually unbeatable: then yes it would be a great achievement. But 10 of the same ship gets no medals for inginuity or accomplishment or out-of-the-box thinking.

 

[Tank]

You guyts are just all anti Earth. Wouldnt 10 Ka'tocs be cheesy???

ok the Centuari & Minbari miss out on uber cheese, ah well :lol:

 

[Reaverman]

You guyts are just all anti Earth. Wouldnt 10 Ka'tocs be cheesy???

ok the Centuari & Minbari miss out on uber cheese, ah well :lol:

So where is your 10 Sag fleet Tank

 

[Burger]

I don't think we'll see many 10x Ka'Toc fleets.

10x Ka'Tan, on the other hand..........

 

[Reaverman]

I don't think we'll see many 10x Ka'Toc fleets.

10x Ka'Tan, on the other hand..........

Oh Yeah...I forgot about that

 

[Burger]

I don't think we'll see many 10x Ka'Toc fleets.

10x Ka'Tan, on the other hand..........

Oh Yeah...I forgot about that

DOH!!!
Do I get 5 sportsmanship points for reminding you?

 

[Tank]

I am not that cheesy, I prefer to use sags in a support role, hence why I whinge when they get put upto raid as I only tend to use 2 at a time. :lol:

Besides I hate mixing model size and counters to get that many ships :lol:

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

I have to admit, I don't really see why the sag was dropped from raid to skirmish in the tourney anyway, and it's possible that this was a mistake. But this mistake wouldn't be so well known if someone hadn't gone "That's a bargin, I'll take ten!"

 

[Silvereye]

You at least need a bit of skill to use 10 Ka'Tocs, and it does not pack the range or firepower of a Saggitarius.

Can you see anyone in their right mind picking a fleet of 10 Torotha's? As to the Centauri, 10 Vorchan's, in squadrons, would likely just be cool.

 

[Greg Smith]

I played in a few Batrtletech tournaments many years ago which the players were ultra-competitive. It put me off tourneys.

Playing in Mongoose tourneys has made me re-evaluate my opinion. The players in these are some of the most sportsman-like and friendly guys I have ever played against.