Time Limit to Traveller License?
- Thread starter BenTOGS
- Start date
rust said:
Ooh, yes ... real world blunders and idiocies generally don't have a patch on the 3I (and, I would hazard a guess, most SF and Fantasy RPG universes of any age ... as you all probably can tell, no DnD universe bears up to even cursory scrutiny 'realism' wise :lol: ... not even allowing for the existence/effects of magic)
Phil
hdan said:rust said:
Which leads me to a tangential question: how does one pronounce "Ine Givar".
Is it:
Ein GihVAHR (my preference - sounds more sinister or at least more German.)
EEneh GEEvahr (going with somewhat generic "Latin alphabet" pronunciation rules)
Or?
ISTR that there was an actual, *official* statement on the matter of pronunciation - maybe in an old Journal? Or Digest? I know there was!
But dang it if I can remember where.
Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me but ISTR it may have been in the context of an Imperial Naval Briefing and the officer presenting the briefing indicating the "official/naval" pronunciation?
Anyone's memory better than that?
Phil
Golan2072 said:
Well, it *would* be a "bright side" except for the inevitability that *someone* would be offended that your toolbox creation was somehow variant from the "canon" ... despite all your reasonable and sensible explanations as to why canon was irrelevant :roll: or even if you manfully ignored their rants :wink:
In short ... you can't win, you can't break even and you can't leave the game :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Phil
Golan2072
Cosmic Mongoose
Grognards! :x :roll: :x *sigh*aspqrz said:
Anyhow, from my experience, once a setting isn't the OTU, a lot of the flame-warring subsides (except for a few stubborn people who flame-war about rulesets, that is).
And besides, all the themes I do like about the OTU, and even about TNE, are universal sci-fi themes existing in a huge number of sci-fi books, films and computer games, rather than OTU inventions: feline aliens, an AI/robot/cyborg empire (NOT the VIRUS!), recovery from a Long Night, precursor ruins (but I like my "ancients" EXTINCT rather than meddling in the campaign using uber-tech) and psionics/mentants.
I have a wistful dream and perhaps impossible dream that someday, someone will be able to say "I liked TNE and I liked Virus" on a discussion board without someone else coming along and rehashing the same old arguments about how much they thought TNE and/or virus sucked and/or how it's TNE's fault that GDW went under.
Or if people don't like it, maybe they would just say "I didn't like it but I respect the fact that others do" and skip the aforementioned ranting about how they think it (and by implication anyone who likes TNE) is "stupid".
Sadly, despite the fact that this was all done and dusted over a decade ago, that day has not yet come.
Or if people don't like it, maybe they would just say "I didn't like it but I respect the fact that others do" and skip the aforementioned ranting about how they think it (and by implication anyone who likes TNE) is "stupid".
Sadly, despite the fact that this was all done and dusted over a decade ago, that day has not yet come.
Golan2072
Cosmic Mongoose
I don't like the OTU but I love some of the things others have done with it; I certainly respect other's work on it. Even though I have certain issues with TNE, I like its overall themes and its excellent flavour text.Blix said:
And Path of Tears is one of the best Traveller books ever!
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
Blix said:I have a wistful dream and perhaps impossible dream that someday, someone will be able to say "I liked TNE and I liked Virus" on a discussion board without someone else coming along and rehashing the same old arguments about how much they thought TNE and/or virus sucked and/or how it's TNE's fault that GDW went under.
Or if people don't like it, maybe they would just say "I didn't like it but I respect the fact that others do" and skip the aforementioned ranting about how they think it (and by implication anyone who likes TNE) is "stupid".
Sadly, despite the fact that this was all done and dusted over a decade ago, that day has not yet come.
As you give, so you get........not aimed at you specifically, just if you keep getting in arguments, arguments will keep happening.
I'm sure there are those who wish that they could post critically about the subject without all of the "love my monkey" postings in favor of TNE, Nielsen, whatever.
Also, consider that the TNE argument could be made more palatably if it wasn't often, and at the time, officially couched in arguments or implications (since we are to discuss implications) that "the OTU was broken", "the OTU was moribund/boring" , "OTU needed erasure" and anyone who doesn't like it is a worthless old fossil, it might get more love; you know, disliking it but respecting the what was done with it, (or failing that, that others have different valid ideas about its worth).
Its going to be a problem as long as you (generally, not aimed at blix specificially) keep being upset or offended by the fact that there are others that hate somthing you really like; you're at the emotional mercy of the one Grognard or Malenfant who has to rant either "Old is best" or New is better". Both of which mean "mine cant be good until yours is gone".
Give as you get, or take your lumps and keep playing if you like the game.
Blix said:
Yep, if only we could all post our own opinions without any fear or concern that others might post contrary ones. Wouldn't it be great!
On reflection, if you had said that you wish you could engage in constructive and worthwhile discussions of the merits of TNE and develop ideas for it with others without those discussions being interrupted by hater posts, that would be fair. However that's not actualy what you said.
Simon Hibbs
For all it's faults (and I'll admit they exist), the OTU offers up something that only one other game setting comes close to.
A wealth of ready made material that a GM can use to run adventures without having to create their own universe.
The only other game setting that rivals the amount of material available for the OTU is Star Wars. A couple other Sci-Fi settings like Star Trek and B5 come close, at least as far as setting material available - but most of the stuff for those settings isn't tied to a game system. Furthermore, AFAIK, the Traveller OTU is the largest and most successful setting tied to a game system that didn't start out as a TV/Movie/Novel.
Oh, and any setting that is worked on by multiple people over a long period of time will have lots of contradictory information, particularly if one person or team isn't in charge of overseeing and correcting that stuff. Take a look at Star Wars - even though Lucas actually has appointed an overseer for the canon, there are still issues of contradictions in the canon (many created by Lucas himself).
A wealth of ready made material that a GM can use to run adventures without having to create their own universe.
The only other game setting that rivals the amount of material available for the OTU is Star Wars. A couple other Sci-Fi settings like Star Trek and B5 come close, at least as far as setting material available - but most of the stuff for those settings isn't tied to a game system. Furthermore, AFAIK, the Traveller OTU is the largest and most successful setting tied to a game system that didn't start out as a TV/Movie/Novel.
Oh, and any setting that is worked on by multiple people over a long period of time will have lots of contradictory information, particularly if one person or team isn't in charge of overseeing and correcting that stuff. Take a look at Star Wars - even though Lucas actually has appointed an overseer for the canon, there are still issues of contradictions in the canon (many created by Lucas himself).
simonh said:
I said that if people do not like TNE, I would like them to say "I don't like TNE" and leave out the ranting about it. I thought that readers would be smart enough to also understand that in saying that I was implying that I would like to see intelligent, constructive, worthwhile discussion about it instead. It was very clear from what I said that I having nothing against people not liking the game, I just want the vitriol to be left out of the discussion.
But then apparently it is my fault for being involved in the discussion. Perhaps we should all just stop talking about it, given that apparently even attempting to discuss it reasonably and asking people to moderate their language when talking about it merely "prolongs the argument". :roll:
Egil Skallagrimsson
Mongoose
Not sure if I am allowed to comment on this, as I wasn't playing Trav during all these disputes. Basically, as far as we are concerned the 3I is the MGT Spinward Marches supplement, and a few things picked up here or on other Trav websites. We're even at 1085, not yet made it to 1105 yet.
I like the sheer scale and bizarreness of 3I, the whole idea of a galaxy that has had FTL for thousands of years, various races and idealogies etc etc knocks out many of our real world assumptions. There is really no way of extrapolating forward from 2010 AD, the parameters are just too wide, and so almost anything is possible. Yes, I can see that it is shot through with contradictions and problems (but how many of those are simply our attempts to impose our interpretations of early 21st century politics, economics, society and tech on something which has different parameters?), but in many ways I quite like the sheer madness of the background, and I am clearly not the only one!
With that said I can see why the TNE silicone chip virus thingy upset so many people. If the 3I needed to be collapsed there are many more interesting mechanisms for doing so (for what its worth a return to the civil wars coupled with energetic attacks from Zhondani and Aslan would be my favourite, but each to his own). Frankly, even a zombie making plague or somekind of maghiz on a galactic scale would have up set fewer people, and probably made as much "sense" scientifically.
When you look at the timeline there are tremendous possibilities in alterant futures, and games set around interstellar wars, the beginning of the 3I etc.
Just my thoughts, though, as I said, I am scarcely qualified to comment.
*takes cover*
Egil
I like the sheer scale and bizarreness of 3I, the whole idea of a galaxy that has had FTL for thousands of years, various races and idealogies etc etc knocks out many of our real world assumptions. There is really no way of extrapolating forward from 2010 AD, the parameters are just too wide, and so almost anything is possible. Yes, I can see that it is shot through with contradictions and problems (but how many of those are simply our attempts to impose our interpretations of early 21st century politics, economics, society and tech on something which has different parameters?), but in many ways I quite like the sheer madness of the background, and I am clearly not the only one!
With that said I can see why the TNE silicone chip virus thingy upset so many people. If the 3I needed to be collapsed there are many more interesting mechanisms for doing so (for what its worth a return to the civil wars coupled with energetic attacks from Zhondani and Aslan would be my favourite, but each to his own). Frankly, even a zombie making plague or somekind of maghiz on a galactic scale would have up set fewer people, and probably made as much "sense" scientifically.
When you look at the timeline there are tremendous possibilities in alterant futures, and games set around interstellar wars, the beginning of the 3I etc.
Just my thoughts, though, as I said, I am scarcely qualified to comment.
*takes cover*
Egil
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
hree points and then back to real stuff.
The problem, much as with implication, is that it is generally in the eye of the beholder; and honestly, "vitriol "is pretty over the top for describing 99% of the discussion on the subject here. Not being quick to take offense is the other side of a "don't post vitriol" request; this keeps the situation from degenerating into the "first to get offended wins ".
Sorry, Blix, but you've posted some harsh stuff about others here - including telling people they should go elsewhere, bringing in issues from (and about) other sites, and gotten offended at little or no provocation in other threads. No one seems to be breaking the TOS, so, if this rather gentle forum is too much....well, maybe it isn't just others who are contributing to your problems.
The use of the :roll: was really consistent with reasonable speech, and not at all condescending. Good job being consistent !
Blix said:
The problem, much as with implication, is that it is generally in the eye of the beholder; and honestly, "vitriol "is pretty over the top for describing 99% of the discussion on the subject here. Not being quick to take offense is the other side of a "don't post vitriol" request; this keeps the situation from degenerating into the "first to get offended wins ".
Sorry, Blix, but you've posted some harsh stuff about others here - including telling people they should go elsewhere, bringing in issues from (and about) other sites, and gotten offended at little or no provocation in other threads. No one seems to be breaking the TOS, so, if this rather gentle forum is too much....well, maybe it isn't just others who are contributing to your problems.
The use of the :roll: was really consistent with reasonable speech, and not at all condescending. Good job being consistent !
At least in my case it is not so much a matter or being upset, more a ne-Egil Skallagrimsson said:
cessary playability check to see whether a part of a setting would be ac-
cepted by the players or would be likely to damage their suspension of
disbelief and thereby reduce their fun.
In my experience players will always find every contradiction, implausibi-
lity or other weak point of a setting, and they have a tendency to spend a
lot more time on discussing those shortcomings of a setting than to enjoy
its well designed parts, which are usually just taken for granted.
Therefore I consider it necessary to "deconstruct" each and every setting
idea I encounter, up to and including nitpicking, as a way to learn to avoid
similar blunders in my own settings - because I know there are players
who will treat my settings in the same unfriendly way.
So, I do not hate the Virus idea, and I am not upset by it, I see it as a ve-
ry useful lesson in what to avoid in designing a setting. Unfortunately the
Third Imperium setting simply by its sheer age and size offers many such
lessons, but at the same time this is what makes it interesting and valua-
ble for me, although I would not use it for a campaign.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
Blix said:
....and the urge for a snappy comeback overwhelms the ability to listen, hmmm ?
Nope, I'm suggesting that you should stay out of arguments since they seem to hurt you so, or to work on taking less hurt when people don't agree with your ideas about the world. Your call, doc.......
Shall we call it a day ?
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
Vile said:
Is that the prequel "Traveller II : attack of the clones " or the original trilogy version "Traveller: II the empire strikes back ? "
Or possibly "Traveller II: The wrath of.....Don" ?
dmccoy1693
Cosmic Mongoose
Vile said:
MRQ1 had an OGL SRD. IIRC, someone made an OGL version of old school BRP from the MRQ1 SRD.
Is that enough internet shortened phrases for you?
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