Thoth-Amon

[cbrunish]

Does anybody think it's weird that Thoth-Amon has no corruption? I mean even Pelias has corruption and he wasn't that bad of a guy (as sorcerers go). Just a minor point but's it's been bothering me since I read the original Scrolls of Skelos.

What are your thoughts?

 

[rabindranath72]

I always thought of Thoth-Amon more as a fake than a "true" sorcerer. He is good only when he has the Ring. Without the Ring, he is reduced to being a slave! I do not recall reading any (canon) stories in which he is using sorceries without the Ring. I think the current writeups does not conform well to the original Howard stories.
I do not know whether there is an error in the writeup regarding corruption, but if not, it might well be that he has not done anything to warrant corruption. This could match the fact that he is not a sorcerer at all.
Pelias, OTOH...there is a passage in The Scarlet Citadel when Satha FLEES after looking at Pelias in the eyes:

"What did he see to frighten him?" asked Conan, eyeing his companion uneasily.

"The scaled people see what escapes the mortal eye," answered Pelias, cryptically. "You see my fleshly guise; he saw my naked soul."

An icy trickle disturbed Conan's spine, and he wondered if, after all, Pelias were a man, or merely another demon of the pits in a mask of humanity.

That sentence is really scary, IMO.
Also, Pelias freely uses necromancy to raise a dead:

"Dead or alive," laughed Pelias, "he shall open the door for us."

He clapped his hands sharply and cried, "Rise, Shukeli! Rise from hell and rise from the bloody floor and open the door for your masters! Rise, I say!"

[...]

"His task is done, and hell gapes for him again," remarked Pelias pleasantly; politely affecting not to notice the strong shudder which shook Conan's mighty frame.

I don't know you, but Pelias sounds more corrupt sorcerer to me than Thoth-Amon.

Cheers,
Antonio

 

[decker423]

I don't even bother with placing game stats with characters from the stories. They may be useful in generating ideas or guidelines for your PC or NPCs but that's it.
I think you should let the stories stand alone and inspire and enthrall and let the actual RPG help you create your story.

 

[Jeffreywns]

In the Stygia book, he has a corruption of 12. For the other end of the scale.

 

[Strom]

My two cents - Granted Thoth is perhaps unbeatable with the ring but he is no slouch without the ring - he is a slave because his enemies(magicians cast down with Thoth's rise to power) are incredibly powerful as a group - Thoth dare not take them on without the ring. This is how Thoth describes their power:

"But should my enemies in Stygia learn my whereabouts, not the width of half a world between us would suffice to save me from such a doom as would blast the soul of a bronze statue. Only a king with castles and hosts of swordsmen could protect me.

He is in a precarious situation in POTS - he dare not use his power. In the end, he is rewarded for his strategy of laying low and not using his sorcerous power. Taking on a group like the Black Ring should be carefully considered no matter how powerful you are. :lol:

 

[rabindranath72]

I do not see how the fact he states that they would hunt him down implies that he has powers beyond the Ring.
I keep thinking that there are lots of ways in which he could have escaped slavery if he really had had True Powers, at least judging from The Scrolls of Skelos which even assigns him Hypnotism powers. I think Howard's text is quite open to interpretation.

 

[Strom]

I do not see how the fact he states that they would hunt him down implies that he has powers beyond the Ring.
I keep thinking that there are lots of ways in which he could have escaped slavery if he really had had True Powers, at least judging from The Scrolls of Skelos which even assigns him Hypnotism powers. I think Howard's text is quite open to interpretation.

Well - lets discuss!

I think it's crystal clear why Thoth doesn't escape - he tells us why:

Only a king with castles and hosts of swordsmen could protect me

It's a reflection on the power of his enemies that he needs such protection. This is consistent with the magic in Howard's Hyborian age - it is deadly & powerful but still susceptible to the power of armies and the sword.

Also, I'm not sure Thoth could rise to the level of reputation and rank he accomplished with just the power of the ring. A level of power would be needed to control such a powerful relic - and there is no doubt that Thoth-Amon is the master of the Serpent Ring of Set.

 

[rabindranath72]

I do not see how the fact he states that they would hunt him down implies that he has powers beyond the Ring.
I keep thinking that there are lots of ways in which he could have escaped slavery if he really had had True Powers, at least judging from The Scrolls of Skelos which even assigns him Hypnotism powers. I think Howard's text is quite open to interpretation.

Well - lets discuss!

I think it's crystal clear why Thoth doesn't escape - he tells us why:

Only a king with castles and hosts of swordsmen could protect me

It's a reflection on the power of his enemies that he needs such protection. This is consistent with the magic in Howard's Hyborian age - it is deadly & powerful but still susceptible to the power of armies and the sword.

Also, I'm not sure Thoth could rise to the level of reputation and rank he accomplished with just the power of the ring. A level of power would be needed to control such a powerful relic - and there is no doubt that Thoth-Amon is the master of the Serpent Ring of Set.

Sure! I like a good discussion
Well, I am not debating the power of his enemies at all!
But Thoth-Amon might have simply been a very powerful political figure (and perhaps a scholar), which by happenstance got hold of that powerful relic. Even if it is "just" summoning a demon to do his dirty work, such an artifact could well make him feared and reviled; no one would like to make an enemy of someone who can kill you from a distance!
In fact, as soon as he gets his ring back, Thoth-Amon acts out his vengeance. Why would he not need to fear his enemies anymore now? This makes also me wonder about the true power of his enemies. Summoning a demon seems to be the pinnacle of sorcerous power, if not even the "powerful" Black Ring "sorcerers" can feel safe!

From a literary and gaming point of view, I admit I am also partial to a "Call of Cthulhu" view of sorcery; everyone with the will to master it could use an artifact or cast a spell, even without becoming a full-fledged "sorcerer", like many characters in Lovecraft's tales do (whatever a sorcerer is, in practice). Sorcery should be based on will and meaning, things which make it really scary.
Actually, I do not like the d20 Conan definition of sorcerers at all, in terms of artificial levels of proficiency and number of spells which can be learned. I am basing my games on a mixture of the Elric! and Call of Cthulhu games, and sorcery has never been more exciting!

Anyway, I would love to hear other interpretations of Howard's scripts! I think that by careful reading of the character's behaviors and actions gives strong hints about the nature of the Hyborian age.