The issue with Stealth

[Nerhesi]

Remember, once a ship or craft is detected, that million dollar paint job is useless and now you have a cost effective target. We're used to very small encounters and I don't see any mass combat rules for the new High Guard yet. In large encounters and especially with large fighter or SDB groups, there must be a rule pending for sensor checks. The more sensors looking should mean a much easier chance to spot targets. If 128 fighters sweep for sensor blips, 113 stealth fighters will get spotted and now they are just overpriced. If stealth fighters were that common you would see starships and small craft AWACS with the best electronics, distributed or extended arrays, enhanced or improved signal processing, and the lovely extension net.

I think you may be confusing detection with sensor lock.

Detection is a 1 time thing sure - but sensor lock is a boon to every attack on the locked on target by the ship that has a lock. That's huge.

So that million dollar paint job just keeps on giving as it plays into lock on attempts/breaking locking each turn.

 

[Condottiere]

Let's assume that the fighter the Navy is about to next deploy costs two hundred million schmuckers, and has an operating cost of fifty thousand schmuckers an hour.

You certainly will add in the stealth feature, assuming that the strikecraft hadn't been built around the concept from it's genesis, and you'll certainly assign your almost best pilots to it, less to have a kickass dogfighter out there, more to shepherd it safely to the target and back.

 

[Tenacious-Techhunter]

Naive thought on fixing stealth: Detection and sensor lock penalties drop to -1 after the first successful hit, regardless of "damage" inflicted, because of armor pitting; the stealth coating got swiss-cheesed, and hull pits are very reflective.

In other thoughts, while "Stealth vs. Not Stealth" probably should be resolved in a way that presents both as viable options, it's important to consider there are other issues that might balance things out in other ways:

At least in modern day, aircraft and other craft with stealth coatings or geometric features tend to be very obvious.

For non-Military characters, this means you have to keep the fighter in your improvised hangar unless you absolutely must use it, or else it might get confiscated due to local law ratings.

For Military campaigns, this means that plane getting caught by camera phone or spy satellite if it's ever on a runway, or idle out in the open.

There are other reasons to not have a stealth plane that have more to do with not being caught with having one.

 

[phavoc]

A fundamental question of stealth is just how are you getting it? In the military (ground) you have two similar, but different concepts - Cover and Concealment. Concealment hides you and makes it harder to be detected, but once you are detected it's pretty much pointless. Cover, on the other hand, can provide concealment AND protection.

So taking this into the stealth argument, if your stealth systems allow you to potentially sneak up closer to your target, but once detected the opposing sensors can get a firm target lock, that's concealment.

But, if your stealth systems are constantly spoofing the enemies sensors so that he can't get a firm lock on you and hold it, that would be the equivalent of cover. Or perhaps the cloaking tech of Star Trek - useful to get in close and get off the first shot, but something you can't use once combat starts. But can be used to run away if necessary.

I can see both types of systems being used, with the cover type being FAR more expensive and elaborate. Most ships would probably deploy the concealment option since once you start fighting you can't hide yourself anymore. Only special operations or dedicated ships would have the budget for the more expensive stealth systems.

We've already proven today how you can stealth things visually, and even thermally. There's always going to be a race between detection and evasion, and one side will be up over the other until there is a change and then the race starts all over again.

 

[Condottiere]

Basically, it's relative cross sectional signature(s).

The more active coordinated sensors you have pinging from different angles, and then transmitted to a central source to compare the results, the more likely you are to find something.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Okay, made some changes here that should make Stealth merely useful rather than a must-buy, plus give more weight to higher TL fleets.

In a nutshell, the DM is changed to -1, plus the difference between TLs. Superior Stealth does the same but starts at -4. TL removed for Stealth, changed to TL12 for Superior.

 

[Nerhesi]

Look at you with some off the cuff good ideas Matt.. why you gotta wait till we post about this?? lol - but honestly, good move with lowering the TL as well. I think whats a really cool side-effect is that it allows players that invest in a TL14 smallcraft for example with stealth hull, to sneak onto that TL12 planet must more easily

Very cool special-ops style drops

 

[Chas]

In a nutshell, the DM is changed to -1, plus the difference between TLs. Superior Stealth does the same but starts at -4. TL removed for Stealth, changed to TL12 for Superior.

Hmmm, that -4 is huge considering the impact on locking weapons and is a must have.
Considering that TL12 for superior with regards the Enhanced Signal Processing which gives a +4 back at TL 13, I suppose that works in that for one TL Stealth is king, and then TL13 has a catch up.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hmmm, that -4 is huge considering the impact on locking weapons and is a must have.
Considering that TL12 for superior with regards the Enhanced Signal Processing which gives a +4 back at TL 13, I suppose that works in that for one TL Stealth is king, and then TL13 has a catch up.

We'll have to see how that all balances out, but it makes Stealth a thing, if players wish to use it.

 

[Nerhesi]

I like it when equal skill + technology = an even roll.

I think that's what we end up with, literal balance. +4 from sensors, vs -4 from superior stealth - assuming equal TL - so it's just opposed skill rolls to get and maintain lockons