Testing Redundancy on Vassal

[LaranosTZ]

It was brought up quite a while ago, but I still think the 'redundancy' rule has great merit in the ACTA system.

Obviously a system like this needs playtesting, so I'd like to invite anyone that is interested in this rule to join me in playtesting it on Vassal in the next couple of days.

A quick summary of the rule is;

Ships at different classes gain a number of 'redundancy' points to reflect the extra and backup systems larger ships have to mitigate hits that could potentially cripple their ships. To reflect this, each point of redundancy negates a single critical hit inflicted on the ship. The critical hits negated are not chosen, but are on a first come-first served basis. As soon as a critical is taken, a point of redundancy is marked off, and the critical hit is negated.

Ships do not recieve custom levels of redundancy, but recieve them as follows;

Patrol and Skirmish ships get 0 redundancy points.

Raid Ships get 1 Redundancy Point

Battle Ships gain 2 Redundancy Points

War Ships Gain 3 Redundancy Points

Armageddon Ships gain 4 Redundancy Points

Ancient ships and ships that do not use the standard critical charts (namely vorlons and shadows) do not have redundancy, as well, they don't really need it.

Again, if anyone wants to try out these rules, I'll pretty much be around most of the weekend, and I would encourage anyone to playtest as much as possible.

 

[Alexb83]

For Vorlons and shadows I would say they should get to downgrade a number of precise 6's (i.e. 7s, which roll 6+1d6 damage) to normal 6s, equal to the normal redundancy value of their level. (so a Vorlon Destroyer could downgrade 2 7s, a heavy cruiser 4)

 

[LaranosTZ]

At this point, that would over-complicate things, I think. Redundancy prevents criticals, shadows/vorlons take no criticals, thus they have no need for redundancy. With the upgrade in the armageddon book, they are plenty tough all ready.

 

[tneva82]

The critical hits negated are not chosen, but are on a first come-first served basis.

Does this include damage-only crits or(IMO the more critical) only those which are going to affect ships performance somehow?

Actually I would concider making it so that damage is not negated but only special effects. Afterall I can't see why redundancy would stop critical hit from blowing huge hole into ship. Don't see that as all that complicated rule either.

 

[LaranosTZ]

Well, for now I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible, so for the purposes of these tests, let's try it with the simplest possible interpretation, ie it just negates the entire effects of the first crits that affect the ship.

Whether those crits are damage only crits, or damage and effect crits. No damage is done, and no effect occurs to the ship.

As I said, this is a very very basic test...if we see that it is a rule that performs decently, then we can see about refining it.

 

[locarno24]

if you're ignoring a set number of 6's rolled on the bulkhead/solid/critical chart, you never get to find out what the critical would have been because it never happens....

And ignoring a triple damage 'secondary explosions' is probably a good plan as well....

 

[LaranosTZ]

Exactly my point, and the way I want to playtest it.

IE, A War ship has 3 redundancy points, so the first 3 criticals rolled against it, (the first three 6s) are simply treated as normal hit. The 1/1 damage is inflicted, but there is no roll on the critical chart.

 

[tneva82]

Exactly my point, and the way I want to playtest it.

And not the way I would go with redundancy but to each his own :lol: I just can't see how redundancy systems are going to stop huge hole from being blown to ship. Reroute systems yes, keep hull intact no.

 

[Burger]

Redundancy might be a bit overpowered for Drakh and especially the Adira. The critical being downgraded to a normal hit means its damage can be soaked by the GEG.

 

[H]

only X times per game based upon the level of ship. The GEG is hugely overated. If you have just taken a barage from a Vorlon heavy cruiser in your mothership, stopping 4 of the damage and a few crits probably still won't save your sorry ass.

 

[Burger]

But it makes Drakh virtually invincible vs. Drazi or a Narn Bat Squad, for example. Lots of small weapons, each of them gets reduced to nothing.

 

[H]

as we say regulraly, you can't view a ships properties based upon one or two enemy fleets.

However, I'm not doing the full maths, but 6 Ka'Tocs in a squadron, fire at the mothership (hoping to take out its 4 launched raiders in an exposion)
thats 12 dice of superAP DD beam, and 6 Dice of mag gun of Super AP TD beam. . .

12 dice hitting on 2's. . . . and 6 dice hitting on 2's also. . . so then 10 rolling on 3's, and 5 rolling on 3's. . . and so on. that is going to do a hell of a lot more than 4 damage, easily overwhelming the GEG.

 

[Burger]

as we say regulraly, you can't view a ships properties based upon one or two enemy fleets.

But you just said it sucked, based on a Vorlon Heavy Cruiser!

However, I'm not doing the full maths, but 6 Ka'Tocs in a squadron, fire at the mothership (hoping to take out its 4 launched raiders in an exposion)
thats 12 dice of superAP DD beam, and 6 Dice of mag gun of Super AP TD beam. . .

12 dice hitting on 2's. . . . and 6 dice hitting on 2's also. . . so then 10 rolling on 3's, and 5 rolling on 3's. . . and so on. that is going to do a hell of a lot more than 4 damage, easily overwhelming the GEG.

Err no. The GEG reduces damage on a per weapon basis.

1 Ka'Toc:
2AD SAP/DD/B gets 3.6 hits doing 7.2 damage. Reduced to 3.2 by the GEG 4.
1AD SAP/TD/B gets 1.8 hits, doing 5.4 damage. Reduced to 1.4 damage.
Total damage 4.6 instead of 12.6.
GEG has reduced the damage by 63%.

6 Ka'Tocs, do 27.6 damage. Then the Mothership and Raiders fire back...

 

[H]

I know what it does! ;-)
however, you only get 3.6 hits? are you using tanks dice!

the raiders can't fire back, they just launched. . .

It doesn't suck, but it is Overated by most players.

and really, we need to spend less time on these boards!

 

[Burger]

I know what it does! ;-)
however, you only get 3.6 hits? are you using tanks dice!

Well you did the maths totally wrong, clumping those 12 dice together.

3.6 hits is average for a 2AD B/SAP against hull 4... and Tank has lost all whinging rights about his dice, for the rest of his life and his next 3 lives as well.

and really, we need to spend less time on these boards!

But then we might have to do some work! Noooooooooooo

 

[H]

I always do maths wrong, it's my way of not being asked to do it again!

 

[Obsidian]

But it makes Drakh virtually invincible vs. Drazi or a Narn Bat Squad, for example. Lots of small weapons, each of them gets reduced to nothing.

You're going to have to explain this further since I just can't see it. By the rules, the Drahk mothership would have Redundancy 3 since it is a war level ship. All this means is that the first 3 criticals on it for the game are ignored. After that all the redundancy is gone so by the second or third turn this should be completely used up. Especially considering the number of AD that a single war point worth of ships can throw back at the mothership.

 

[Burger]

But it makes Drakh virtually invincible vs. Drazi or a Narn Bat Squad, for example. Lots of small weapons, each of them gets reduced to nothing.

You're going to have to explain this further since I just can't see it. By the rules, the Drahk mothership would have Redundancy 3 since it is a war level ship. All this means is that the first 3 criticals on it for the game are ignored. After that all the redundancy is gone so by the second or third turn this should be completely used up. Especially considering the number of AD that a single war point worth of ships can throw back at the mothership.

Yes it wouldn't last long. But it helps Drakh more than it helps other races. Other races would lose the critical but still take a Solid Hit, whereas Drakh would be able to absorb the solid hit in the GEG.

 

[Epaminondas]

But how many people are going to take a swarm of ships v. the Drakh?

Your math indicates a few, bigger weapons would be more effective use of resources...

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Granted still a problem in a tournament; but not so much in one off or campaign play....

 

[Burger]

In tournament: yeah you're stuck with one fleet.

In campaign: you're stuck with what's on your fleet roster.