Tank questions

[wkehrman]

From tonight's game we had two questions:

1)How does one account for a tank or other vehicle getting hit by artillery? We played it as an attack on the armor facing the impact point. If the impact point was behind the tank, the die roll was against the rear numbers. Four of us looked for this and none of us could find it.

2) A Tiger and King Tiger move 4" and a Sherman moves 3". Really? Given the higher real world speed for the Sherman I would have thought this the other way around. Additionally both the Tiger and King Tiger had real world mechanical issues that kept it below it's maximum speed. Is there something else we're not factoring in?

 

[Captain Kremmen]

I asked the first question myself. I believe it is not explicitly covered by the rules.

I think most "Artillery" hits represent more than one round, shells would be going off all around the tank so I think I will just count the rear facing armour.

Sherman does seem a bit slow maybe shermans have more cautious drivers because they know that if there is a tiger around the next corner they are toast!

 

[MongooseMatt]

From tonight's game we had two questions:

1)How does one account for a tank or other vehicle getting hit by artillery? We played it as an attack on the armor facing the impact point. If the impact point was behind the tank, the die roll was against the rear numbers. Four of us looked for this and none of us could find it.

You played it correctly.

 

[MongooseMatt]

maybe shermans have more cautious drivers because they know that if there is a tiger around the next corner they are toast!

I would

 

[wkehrman]

maybe shermans have more cautious drivers because they know that if there is a tiger around the next corner they are toast!

I would

So that sort of cautiousness is built into all stats?

I'm guessing Creighton Abrams would have issues with this logic!

 

[wkehrman]

From tonight's game we had two questions:

1)How does one account for a tank or other vehicle getting hit by artillery? We played it as an attack on the armor facing the impact point. If the impact point was behind the tank, the die roll was against the rear numbers. Four of us looked for this and none of us could find it.

You played it correctly.

Just to pick nits...

If the impact point falls ON the vehicle, what then? Top armor is nowhere near as thick as front, side or rear armor on most common armored vehicles.

 

[Rabidchild]

I'd say give it rear armor and call it "elevated" as well. The shot did come from more than 6" up after all...

 

[wkehrman]

I'd say give it rear armor and call it "elevated" as well. The shot did come from more than 6" up after all...

A PzIV caught in a US heavy artillery barrage with the IP on the tank: The US player would roll 2xD6+1 (resulting between a 4 and a 14?) if the Target roll is 7, 8 or 9 then the German player rolls a die, subtracting one from the result, meaning, in effect, he needs a 6. Otherwise he takes one hit. Any roll between 10 and 14(?) would result in two Hits which would kill the PzIV.

A quickie look online: the PzIV H and the M4A3 says top armor is about half of the rear armor. I defer to Agis and Co. on the details.

 

[Foxmeister]

I'd say give it rear armor and call it "elevated" as well. The shot did come from more than 6" up after all...

A PzIV caught in a US heavy artillery barrage with the IP on the tank: The US player would roll 2xD6+1 (resulting between a 4 and a 14?).

No - the result is two values, each between 2 and 7. You don't add the dice together unless is was listed as 2D6+1, which would give values between 3 and 13.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Agis]

I'd say give it rear armor and call it "elevated" as well. The shot did come from more than 6" up after all...

My call also!
Please bear in mind that I can only comment on rule issues, Matt is in charge of the rule section, I wrote the army lists and some advanced rules...

 

[wkehrman]

I'd say give it rear armor and call it "elevated" as well. The shot did come from more than 6" up after all...

A PzIV caught in a US heavy artillery barrage with the IP on the tank: The US player would roll 2xD6+1 (resulting between a 4 and a 14?).

No - the result is two values, each between 2 and 7. You don't add the dice together unless is was listed as 2D6+1, which would give values between 3 and 13.

Regards,

Dave

So based on your correction--which I understand--an artillery round landing on a PzIV--I'm only talking about a situation where the IP is ON the vehicle--is not going to do damage unless I roll at least one 6.

 

[wkehrman]

I'd say give it rear armor and call it "elevated" as well. The shot did come from more than 6" up after all...

My call also!
Please bear in mind that I can only comment on rule issues, Matt is in charge of the rule section, I wrote the army lists and some advanced rules...

OK, thanks for the clarification. To me, the "Author" of a rules set--which is how you are listed in my copy of the rulebook--wrote the rules.

So whine at you when we have Army List issues and whine at Matt when we have rules issues, I get it. :wink:

j/k

 

[Foxmeister]

So based on your correction--which I understand--an artillery round landing on a PzIV--I'm only talking about a situation where the IP is ON the vehicle--is not going to do damage unless I roll at least one 6.

That would be my understanding, but it also rather assumes that you use rear armour as your target score which "technically" isn't specified in the rules (though it certainly makes sense IMHO).

Regards,

Dave

 

[wkehrman]

maybe shermans have more cautious drivers because they know that if there is a tiger around the next corner they are toast!

I would

OK, seriously Matt, this is the reason the M4 moves so slow? Because the drivers are worried?

 

[Laffe]

So based on your correction--which I understand--an artillery round landing on a PzIV--I'm only talking about a situation where the IP is ON the vehicle--is not going to do damage unless I roll at least one 6.

Artillery was never that good on taking out armour though. High Explosives with lots of shrapnel are made to kill infantry and softskins. Rolling a 6 simulates hitting a weak spot or similar freak occurence.

 

[wkehrman]

So based on your correction--which I understand--an artillery round landing on a PzIV--I'm only talking about a situation where the IP is ON the vehicle--is not going to do damage unless I roll at least one 6.

Artillery was never that good on taking out armour though. High Explosives with lots of shrapnel are made to kill infantry and softskins. Rolling a 6 simulates hitting a weak spot or similar freak occurence.

I do get that--many local friends argued the same as you--I'm not sure what I was expecting to happen, but it was not at all clear what happens when a vehicle does fall in the lethal zone or even under the IP. That's really more what I'm fishing for.

 

[weasel_fierce]

To be honest, Im perfectly allright saying nothing happens whatsoever.

A high explosive shell wont inflict any damage unless its a direct hit, and a direct hit from indirect fire is so unlikely as to absurd. So I'd just figure out the damage to whatever else is under the template, and let the tank slip by untouched.

Now a 150mm or similar gun firing directly can score a direct hit, and on occasion did blow the turret off even heavily armoured tanks

 

[wkehrman]

To be honest, Im perfectly allright saying nothing happens whatsoever.

A high explosive shell wont inflict any damage unless its a direct hit, and a direct hit from indirect fire is so unlikely as to absurd. So I'd just figure out the damage to whatever else is under the template, and let the tank slip by untouched.

Now a 150mm or similar gun firing directly can score a direct hit, and on occasion did blow the turret off even heavily armoured tanks

What about something lightly armored like the Dingo or something open like a halftrack? What about a truck or a jeep?

I do get the point about tanks though.

 

[weasel_fierce]

What about something lightly armored like the Dingo or something open like a halftrack? What about a truck or a jeep?

I do get the point about tanks though.

A truck or jeep caught in a shell blast is propably not in good shape.

For "sort of armoured" stuff like dingos or bren carriers, a rule is needed though

 

[Agis]

maybe shermans have more cautious drivers because they know that if there is a tiger around the next corner they are toast!

I would

OK, seriously Matt, this is the reason the M4 moves so slow? Because the drivers are worried?

Not at all, it was obvioulsy a joke! :twisted:

Why so slow? That is something for me:
Sherman Speed max: 38.5 km/h (24 mi/h) for a brief period
Tiger II speed max: Speed 41.5 km/h (25.8 mph)

Plus the way Shermans were most of the time used, stats in other games etc etc.
And do not worry, the slower speed is also represented in lower points!

And no, I will not answer in and endless discussion that might follow...
:wink: :wink: :wink: