Survival of FLGS moving into the digital doc age

I would actually do a U-turn immediately on IT at the RPG table if there was a universal tool (one that ran on windows mobile, windows vista/7, iphones and android (and anything else I've missed)) that allowed communications in a group environment, possibly using one computer as a server (presumably the GM's) to allow players to select just one other player to speak to and the GM was able to see all of them... it would allow more plotting among players who aren't currently active without disrupting those who are (eg when the party is separated).

It would also allow more independant action with those who are wanting to be sneaky or are acting on the GM's instructions (eg playing a secret agent or something's taken control of his character, etc).

Being able to keep records of the prime character stats for any system would also be a good thing.

I actually do miss not having Tablesmith on my tablet - being able to roll on tables was a good thing, particularly when making up scenarios at home - where I could copy and paste the results quickly...
 
Somebody said:
(1) Some iThingies have/had problems with complex JavaScript/large amounts of JavaScript. I.e a Wicket-App that runs on basically everything failed on iPhone 3 and iPad 1.

Yeah, well, I do have problems understanding why anyone would buy anything from Apple, except the "got to be first" sydrome... they don't like flash, they don't seem to like other programs and they cost more than other brands, despite being produced, I suspect, in much the same factories. And don't get me started about the guys who lecture about PC users using windows and MS being a monopoly and then go back to using their Apple products... :)

I'm afraid that, these days, my programming skills have dropped to practically zero - I used to program in basic and in pascal, but never moved onto OOP based programming, so am now struggling to learn JAVA...
 
BFalcon said:
(Unless someone wants to open up a thread on "CSI: Regina"?)
The case I liked most was the one where the Aslan accountant died of
food poisoning because the Vargr standup comedian incidentally activa-
ted the Alien artefact he had stolen from the Bwap warlord, and that ar-
tefact sent a can of cat food into a parallel universe where it remained
for 500,000 years before it was sent back into our universe a split se-
cond after it had left it, so that the "best before" date on the can was
wrong, the food was 500,000 years old, and the Aslan accountant ...

... what ? Okay ... :(
 
rust said:
BFalcon said:
(Unless someone wants to open up a thread on "CSI: Regina"?)
The case I liked most was the one where the Aslan accountant died of
food poisoning because the Vargr standup comedian incidentally activa-
ted the Alien artefact he had stolen from the Bwap warlord, and that ar-
tefact sent a can of cat food into a parallel universe where it remained
for 500,000 years before it was sent back into our universe a split se-
cond after it had left it, so that the "best before" date on the can was
wrong, the food was 500,000 years old, and the Aslan accountant ...

... what ? Okay ... :(

The scary thing is, it does kinda sound like a CSI plot... :lol:
 
Somebody said:
Other useful software is a mini "database" (Actually XML - faster to fill) with the scenarios worlds (UWP, description, some hints/NPC). Select world from list and there the data is. Works like a charm with a tablet and stylus (Java/Windows). Hmm, maybe a new interface for that with graphics (show sector map->drill down to subsector by click->select system->see short form data(1)->select mainworld->see full data(2)

I did some character databases back then (used Perfect Filer)...
 
Somebody said:
I accept that some GM are "old school" and still carry around books - their back, not mine. I have in the last three years (and will) drop GMs that can not accept electronic dice and charsheets.
Y'know ever since 3rd ed D&D came out, I've been getting told that and I was the GM. You don't let me play that race, screw your game. I only start minimum 3rd level, no? screw your game. Oh, 3rd level but I multiclass those three levels, screw your game.

I've even had people join my game after getting my handout emailed to them, and supposedly read it. Then they play a few sessions telling me how great the game was (I uses sound files so it was very immersive)... when they realized that I don't hand out XP for everything, I just tell you when you got an RP bonus and when you leveled.. they quit not even telling me why (or a bs reason, depends on which one it was) why? they had such a hard time staying interested that they always bs'd and never got anything done so they just started expecting a level a session and left it to the GM to advance the adventure. They routinely ended up like 8th or 9th level before the end of a 1st level adventure.

I don't disagree with anyone not playing in a game that doesn't game how they like.

But really, what you said was you are intractable and, if the GM won't game your way.. screw their game.

So short sighted and self-centered. *shrugs*
 
GamerDude said:
So short sighted and self-centered. *shrugs*

And there you have hit the pertinent point. Most people are extremely self-centered, and basically have their head up their posterior. I think it's a consequence of the ME ME ME generation having raised kids who think the same way. Totally self-absorbed, can't or won't think of the consequences of their actions, nor how they affect anyone else. They frequently have a dose of the entitlement mentality as well.
 
Somebody said:
But a GM who insists that I use printed or (shudder) handwritten sheets and physical dice will see me leave the group. I am no longer willing to lug around A4 ringbinders or remember to bring a sheet, dive after dice that left the table etc. If a GM wants a printed version of my charsheet for his reference he can get the PDF Emailed and print it out himself, no problem. If my printer works I even print it out for him(1). But I won't lug one around.
That's your call, but again what you have said is you are intractable. You have no respect for how another GM games. It's "Your Way or You WON'T Play". Not everyone is you physically, mentally, OR has your budget to keep buying the latest toys.

Let me sum what you've said up as it comes across to me, from someone who has dealt with just about everything...

GM/LOOKING AT CHAR SHEETS:
If I as GM want to see your character sheet. You as player have ZERO right to refuse me that (you lost it when you agreed to play) NOR do you have the right to demand I maintain a separate copy. So what happens?
- you refuse to pass your electronic toy down to the GM?
- You insist/demand the GM come to where you sit to look?
- You insist that you carry the device to the GM and stand there while he looks (hence you see what he's doing).
- Some how you let the GM touch your precious device, and they get to fumble around trying to find what they want, maybe having to ask you questions, all when they don't want you know what they are looking for because they are trying to maintain a reasonable FoW keeping knowledge of the player closer to the knowledge of the character.


PHYSICAL DICE:
Unless you have some kind of physical impairment, what's the problem with real dice? Are you too lazy to do more than "click-n-roll"? You so lazy you can't move out of your seat? Oh wait, maybe it is actually you can't be bothered rolling dice in a way that doesn't send them sailing off the table.

CHARACTER SHEETS:
BINDERS of character sheets? (oh, not 3-ring? A4 not Letter?) What do you carry around every sheet from the last 30+ years? Are you that crazy you can't even separate out the ones for games long dead in systems/settings not gone near for years?

***HOW I SEE/DO THINGS***
I'm the Player/GM who tires to make everyone else's life easier at the table (even as a player I'll provide the CharSheets as I said above). Regular games, convention sessions, these are my rules and I have folks at ever convention I work who come (in part) looking for my games.

I just don't "get" your point of view. To all my games I have my own food/snacks/drink, my HP Tablet PC (use to be my 17.3" wide screen multimedia with Blu-Ray player), an HP Deskjet 1000 printer (was a Cannon iP3600 but the HP is smaller), a box with 1-ream of regular paper, the books I want to be able to just grab and look at (sometimes faster when things are packed up), power strip, some spare character sheets for the different games the group players etc. Hell for our current systems I have Hero Lab and the data files (where available) and let everyone input their characters, maintain them, I email the the PDF right then in there (oh yeah, I pay for my phone to not just have unlimited Internet/data but to be a Wifi hub for up to 8 computers and without charging anyone to use it).

I have to carry it all myself.. with bad knees (arthritis) legs (peripheral neuropathy) and problems with my right hip/lower back.

If I have to I have a collapsible file box that everything goes it, I extend the hande and let it roll on the built in wheels.

I also
  • Print out blank character sheets and provide them to players for free.
  • If you honestly have handwriting that sucks/physical impairment or just want it I provide a fillable PDF (use to be Excel Spreadsheet) which you can email back to me I'll print it out for you.
  • I use to bring small boxes/felt lined bowls for you to roll in to OR have everyone declare at the session start a 'dice rolling zone' the size/shape of the PHB for our game (you can roll ON the book, or just somehow show the boundaries... most use the book). Nothing else goes on it, and if the die goes off re-roll. Goes off on the re-roll critical failure.
  • I collect all paper character sheets and bring them back next week. If someone doesn't comes back *I* pay for the stamp to mail it to them (this has happened twice).
  • Only the GM (me) gets an electronic device for the game, characters, etc. Everyone else puts anything not for use in the game away, cell phones face down on the table (you can look at the time but turn it back over). But otherwise these distractions along with other books, excess dice, cards etc. get put away.

*MY* INTRACTABLE VIEWS:
Guess what, all of those are A)Selfish, B)Self-Centered, C)You being intractable and D) going out of your way to ensure YOU control at least some of the info the GM should have as well as controlling the nature of the game.

Make the GM print it out himself: Again back to "screw you I am lazy and don't' care about others, do it yourself waste your resources not mine".

Sombody, I have gamed RL face-to-face gamed with all of the people your words describe (and I listed above). They try to control the game by making the GM jump through hoops while they sit on their ass, and they waste game time doing it. I personally, as a GM have gone out of my way to make things easy on my players... although what I am about to list clearly violates your demands that you control everything (developed over the last 30+ years I've been playing RPGs) yet I have never met anyone as demanding, controlling, intractable, self-centered, and rude as you make yourself out to sound.

I've played under GMs with some strange requirements, stranger than mine at times but as long as they don't come across as unreasonable to the group I don't sweat it I adapt and play even if it's not "my way".

But, that's how you choose to be and I choose to be how I am. To each their own and I think the games you play in are better for you walking away.
 
Well, the true "Golden Rule" of roleplaying games is not to play with peo-
ple one does not want to play with, for whatever reason. The way a refe-
ree handles the game's "administration" can be one such reason, and to
decline to play with a referee because of this or any other reason is in no
way "intractable" or "self centered", it is just a choice based upon perso-
nal preferences - a matter of taste. And to argue about matters of taste
is rarely a sensible idea ...

To give an example how different things can be, as a referee I never look
at the character sheets. In my view the characters are the players' busi-
ness, my job is to represent the setting and its reactions to the characters'
activities. If any of the players should "cheat", in the end they only cheat
themselves, and if other players dislike the cheating, they have ways - in
the setting and in the real world - to deal with it.
 
Somebody said:
Originally I really thought replying to your poste in detail. But since you obviously read only what you "want to see there" as shown by you claiming to know how I handle my phone, ignoring deatails on the circumstances around my game time etc. it will be a waste of time.

Keep your blinds firmly fixed and insist on paper etc. I will never have to suffer under you or other "yesterdays". Enough progressive GM and players out there. But we make sure to reserve an "oltimer zone" for your kind at the 2020 conventions.

There is a flaw in your argument, unfortunately. The only single advantage you have put forward is that you no longer need to carry round boxes of books for the game - definately a good point, but with most games, as long as you (as GM) have prepared for the adventure (additional notes/refs, etc) you won't need every book that you own!

As to the rest of your arguments - all you have shown is that you are an 'oldtimer' player/GM with new toys.

Show me something new, something that you can't do already for rpg sessions with your 'oldtimer' tech - then you'll have convinced me that buying thousands of pounds of new tech will enhance my roleplaying experience!
 
In my view one of the main advantages is the rapid and cheap transfer
of information. For example, I can "hand" to the players the full colour
map of the planet their characters just landed on, together with all the
publicly available data on the planet and its inhabitants, or the several
pages of the deck plans of a major starship, in an instant at no additional
cost - and information means choices, the more informations the play-
ers have about a situation, the more options their characters have and
the better the players can understand and evaluate these options.

Another advantage I like is the ability to edit material in a simple and
easily legible way. Outdated informations can be replaced with the new
ones in seconds, just a little "search and replace" or "copy and paste",
and the text in question looks just as good as before, all have exactly
the same informations, and the next time we play there is no guessing
what those handwritten, pencilled in notes could mean.

I also see it as an advantage that I can give the players any of the infor-
mations whenever it suits me, whether they are currently present or not,
just by sending it to them. This makes it easier to prepare for an adven-
ture, the players tell me what their characters intend to do the next time
we play, I can prepare the necessary informations and send them to the
players in time so that they can prepare for the evening. It saves a lot
of valuable time at the table to get some of the explanations out of the
way before we actually meet.

Other referees certainly see other advantages (and disadvantages), but
for me these three already are worth some inventments.
 
Oh, don't get me wrong, the tech has made the GM's job a lot easier to prepare for, and run, sessions, but it's just a better way of doing a lot of the stuff we've been doing for years. It's an improvement, certainly, but it's not "new" - it's just a higher tech way of doing the same thing.
 
Well I've been talking to some analyst friends at Gartner & others. The trend
of people purchasing eBook content over dead tree is accelerating much quicker than was anticipated.

I think that is petty much, the last nail in the coffin for FLGS's.
 
Rick said:
It's an improvement, certainly, but it's not "new" - it's just a higher tech way of doing the same thing.
Well, yes, using an airliner instead of a sailing ship to travel from Hamburg
to New York is also just a higher tech way of doing the same thing. :wink:

I do not quite get your point. Something going beyond "just a higher tech
way of doing the same thing" - in our case roleplaying games - would re-
sult in us doing something else than roleplaying games.
 
Rust: unfortunately, your methods require all players to have access to high tech and enough money to buy them... most of the people I've played with have had little or no access to the tech (by this I mean being able to borrow) and nowhere near enough money to buy their own, so I would have had to have bought at least double and run the risk of someone running off with it or copying my files somehow (and instantly making *me* responsible for the piracy of the watermarked PDF files with my name on them...).

Generally (ie not just to Rust): I'd sooner hand out paper handouts and they can either put up with a greyscale pic or use their own imaginations. Tech is available for those who wish to use it, by all means, but having a player try to hold me to ransom over their demanding to use it just smacks of bullying behaviour and would be a player who I'd not want in my group anyhow - if they're going to try to blackmail me over my wanting them to actually pick up a paper sheet and (gasp) a pencil, what else will they do it with? Anyone wanting to use a PDF reader - fine, but don't cry to me when your batteries give out and you can't look up the rules... I've known players refuse to lend out hard-copy books to players who abuse them (and who can blame them) - I'd expect that someone who was so elitist could well find themselves being similarly excluded in such a situation. Much better to consider such a benefit as the PDF books just that - a bonus. Anyone who complains about the LBBs being too bulky will just get laughed at, I'm sorry.

I started roleplaying at a time when all you needed was a single rulebook (Tunnels and Trolls in my case - a single yellow paper booklet), some paper, some pencils and a few dice... and really do not like any ideas of "requiring" technology to be a GM or to play and, if I did not already have the tech, I'd certainly not be allowing any players to use it without regular hard-copies (including at the table so I could check on things as needed). Requiring players to spend money just to play isn't something I like to do - this is why I own 3 JD d20 rulebooks, for example - it's so I can lend out 2 copies to players at the table while using the 3rd for myself. I went out and got hold of 2 cheap copies of the Introduction to Traveller booklets so that players could join in without having to pay out for the full rulebooks initially.

I really despise the elitism that says that you must have the cash to play or sorry, but bubye... if anyone is that spoiled, then I'm sorry, but I'd probably not want you in my group anyhow. Obviously, if you've still not got a basic rulebook after months of playing, I'd be getting a little annoyed it's true, but I'd not demand it initially - for one thing you may not like the system...

Also - having had so many problems to sort out over the years in IT, I've grown to mistrust it - it's a tool, not something to rely on. I consider people who do so (like the fools who go up on the moors or fells with only a GPS reader and can't use a map or compass to save their lives) idiots, quite frankly... you should ALWAYS have a low-tech solution standing by whenever possible or you may find yourself stranded if it goes wrong - it's true in business and it's true in all things. My business files are backed up regularly and I have paper forms standing by in case my admin computer goes down. My RPG I keep paper forms standing by (even though I'm not GMing or playing right now) and have filing cabinets for all my notes, just in case.

Lastly, consider this - would you want a player who might decide to go play wargames or shoot off rounds or stay at home watching TV (or whatever) instead of turning up to your roleplaying game a player you'd want anyhow? I know I wouldn't... that slot would be given to a player who was more loyal to the group, regardless of available technology. Not turning up regularly is both disrespectful to your fellow players and also to your GM who has spent time creating the scenario in their spare time... it's ok if you have a valid excuse, but "can't be bothered and went to do something else" is not.
 
On reflection - consider also, that the UK is (for a good part) largely low-tech in its day to day use... I still have to deal with people who barely know how to use a computer and don't even own a smartphone (I don't own one, come to that) and we have still 8Mbps broadband (usually less) for the majority of the country (although there is a 20Mbps upgrade rolling out). Only the cities seem to get cabled...

Consider also - the digital sales are going to be global... I can buy off a US, Canadian, Chinese or Martian site just as easily (if not easier) as I can a hardcopy off Amazon (we don't have a FLGS here in West Cumbria AFAIK - I've not found one yet), so it may not be the case that people are abandoning the hardcopies. Also, a lot of independants are selling through digital media where they'd not make it into print elsewhere... you can't really compare physical and digital sales unless you ask the publishers (eg Mongoose) themselves for figures...
 
Somebody said:
Originally I really thought replying to your poste in detail. But since you obviously read only what you "want to see there" as shown by you claiming to know how I handle my phone, ignoring deatails on the circumstances around my game time etc. it will be a waste of time.
Typical response, misspellings an all.
 
BFalcon said:
you can't really compare physical and digital sales unless you ask the publishers (eg Mongoose) themselves for figures...

Just based on what you see on this board, PDF sales are growing. Definitely not stagnant or shrinking.
 
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