Survival of FLGS moving into the digital doc age

FreeTrav said:
This posting looks like you're responding to me; that's "Jeff", not "John" :)

DOH!!! Sorry Jeff... :)

FreeTrav said:
The current practice with respect to multiple-size releases seems to be to shrink the print size so that you get a one-to-one match on page count, but I'm beginning to wonder if maybe it wouldn't be better to accept a page-count "mismatch" and use either the same absolute size or a larger relative size for the smaller format - if the base text size is 12pt on the A4 format, instead of dropping to 8pt absolute for the A5 (which pretty closely matches the percentage reduction going from A4 to A5), going to 9.5 point would make it somewhat more readable. Then, use the A5 format as the master for the PDF; it'll be easier to read on the relatively low-resolution screen.

Problem there is that players will have problems when comparing versions - you'll end up with references to page 44 having to be remapped for the PDF to page 45 (for example). Much better to keep it the same page format. You can sometimes reflow the text though...

If you have an A5 screen though, it only means a short bit of scrolling before you hit the end of the full-size page if you choose the fit to width option... don't forget that the PDF viewer often tries to fit the text into the window - try viewing the width and it'll fit better and be bigger.

FreeTrav said:
I hadn't even thought of the appurtenanced cost issue; I live in the NYC area, which have the second highest electricity prices in the US (only the State of Hawai'i is higher). I'm paying about £0.04 ($0.066) per kWh, based on the calculated tariff for June 2011.

Over here, it's 25.7p per kWH (I just looked it up on the British Gas website).
 
Somebody said:
Try taking a look past the "toy tablets" (no matter wether Android, iOS, Maemo/Meego) and look at the Win7 tablets. Granted, they cost more and they are Pen-Driven not finger driven. But they offer a notebook sized screen (10-13 inches) with netbook (Q550, HP Slate, T580)) or notebook(EP121, T73x, T90x) power. Just make sure you end up with an active (Wacom or NTrig) digitizer or at least a resistive one (TM101) and not with a Kapacity/Touch sensor (S10-3T, W500, 1825PTZ). Windows supports fingering these days but WORKS only with a true stylus.

Then it works like a charm, even better than Android or iOS since one gains all the power of the most advanced client/workstation OS currently around and access to the tons of game support software (from CharGen to mapping tools)

And thus we see a continuation of the same arrogant, selfish, and self-centered attitude you've been chided for throughout this thread.

I am an IT professional. I am required to provide support for users of Windows, both Windows XP and Windows 7. I am far happier about Windows 7 than I am about XP, but it still has its flaws, and it still needs professional support. It is NOT the most advanced client workstation OS currently around - that honor needs to be fought between Windows, OS X, and Linux, and there's no clear winner.

However: None of those are, at the present time, truly suited to be used as the OS for a tablet. They, and the VAST majority of the software available for them, including the game support software you laud, are still designed for the use of a keyboard and mouse, not a tablet and touchscreen and stylus. The handwriting recognition technology that is available is, AT BEST, abysmal; the only truly viable "handwriting recognition" technology that has been seen to date has been the sort of thing where YOU need to learn what the DEVICE wants - things like Palm's Graffiti.

I've seen the technology preview for Windows 8, and I have to wonder what Microsoft is thinking - or if they are at all. Windows 8 looks like it would be suitable for a tablet - a "toy" tablet in your opinion; a useful one in mine - except that it's ALSO going to provide support for legacy - meaning Windows 7 - applications, and it will STILL be oriented for a keyboard and device-specific stylus, instead of a fingertouch screen, or one that can take any random stylus.

Admittedly, the stylus issue is more about hardware decisions by hardware manufacturers than it is about software, but MS does have more power in the industry than most people realize, and needs to bring it to bear in this matter. If Palm could do a screen that would allow you to use a paperclip if you lost the stylus, why can't any of the "real" tablets (meaning the ones that run Windows)?

Philosophically, only Linux is less suited to a tablet than Windows is; Windows, at least, has the (expensive and optional) certification program for applications. The current OS X, being essentially Linux with some hacks to allow some of the pre-Intel software to run, has the same certification problem as Linux - a problem that iOS mostly averts (you can only get apps through the Apple AppStore, and Apple does vet the submissions). I don't know about the barriers to entry on the Android Market, but if the NookColor app source is any indication, iOS will have fewer problems with bad apps than Android - but Android will have fewer problems than Windows.

The "toy" tablets that you deride have another advantage relative to the Windows tablets you are so enamored of - form factor. I've seen Windows tablets, and either they're bulky and heavy in comparison to the iPad and other tablets, or they're underpowered. The HP Slate 500, for example, only supports 2GB of RAM - enough to run Windows 7 and any one component of an office suite, but... it won't really be happy with only 2GB; it wants 4GB. Especially if you're going to try to run multiple applications - nobody seems to write tight code any more.

For a laptop or desktop computer, yes, I'll take Windows 7 any day. For carrying to a game session? Even a laptop is a bit bulkier and heavier than I'd like, and a netbook has the screen issue I discussed before. A tablet - iPad/Android/etc, not the polymorphed Windows laptops - is as close to ideal as I'm going to get at the moment, even with the flaws I discussed.
 
I will make one last attempt to bring the focus of this thread back to gaming, rather than evangelization of technology.

It is clear that Somebody lacks reading comprehension. In private mail to me, Somebody accused me of being an Apple fanboy; I see no way that any of my posts on the subject of the technology can be construed as fanboyism.

Furthermore, my focus on my earlier post - before getting sidetracked into a religious argument with a Microsoft fanboi - was about the use of technology for gaming, not the merits of a particular technology.

:roll:

When I am gaming, or talking about gaming, it is the game that is important, not the technology that I am using to play it. I can be just as happy gaming in a climate-controlled slick plastic environment, surrounded by computers and tablets displaying the rules, or dice rolls, or character data, at a touch as I can at a picnic table in Central Park, under a shady tree, with a canvas bag full of books and folders of paper, a box of index cards, a bag of dice, and a handful of pens and pencils.

To me, the technology that the referee or the other players use for gaming isn't inherently a deal-breaker; I'm interested in fun, and can and will accommodate any reasonable request with regards to personal equipage (as contrasted with character equipage). I will make value judgements; if the referee requires that I have an iPad because of some specific capability, I may decline to participate, as I cannot currently justify to myself the cost of purchasing an iPad.

But neither am I a technological luddite; I am perfectly happy to carry around a NookColor for reading, and every month I release two PDF documents full of Traveller material created by and contributed by the community. My computers of choice run Windows 7 as their main operating system, though I also have some older laptops - and some virtual machines - running Linux. Were Apple to allow OS X to run on computers that are not Macintoshes, I might well have a VM running OS X, just because there ARE some things that the Mac does better than Windows - though fewer now than in the past...

The presence or absence at the player level of a particular technology or aid is subordinate to the question "Can I do everything I need to do to play, and will I have fun?". It will be more time-consuming, but I can do math to adjudicate a combat, or to keep a ship's books, with pencil and paper. When playing, even the rules should - in my view - take second place to the question of having fun, and I am not above ignoring the details of the rules when the action is fast and furious, and the ongoing story needs a certain outcome.

The role-playing game is, above all, a group of friends getting together and playing "Let's Pretend". It is interactive storytelling.

I said:
..."Let's pretend that I'm a cowboy and you're an indian and I'm gonna stop you from scalping the women of the town and bang! bang! I shot you and you're dead -- " "Am not! You missed!" "Did not! Cheater!" "Did too! Cheater yourself!"...

All that the funny dice do is provide an impartial arbiter of whether or not you missed. All that the pages and pages of rules do is provide the information you need to understand what the dice are telling you. And all that the pages and pages of source material do is provide Imagination, collected and distilled, to establish the context in which to interpret the dice to determine whether you really did miss...

And no, none of that is trivial, else we'd never have had the "You missed!" "Did not!" arguments when we Pretended before we started RPGing. But it's still that simple.

Some of the members of this forum may recognize that quote; I wrote it in connection with another topic back in 2003, and have occasionally reposted the entire message that it's excerpted from when the topic came up again. But those paragraphs in particular are equally applicable here, and I have never found a better way to express what I feel is the essence of gaming.

Perhaps there are times when not using technology as a gaming tool is absolutely inexcusable. If so, I can't think of them - but still, if it's appropriate, use it. Equally, when forcing the use of technology is inexcusable, don't. But, regardless, keep in mind the most important point: Gaming is about people. It is inherently a social activity. It is about the people we ARE, interacting around the gaming table, with side chatter, snacks, and so on; it is about the people we DREAM OF, in the form of our characters, interacting with each other and with the world they "live" in - if we are playing Traveller, a world of starships, and aliens, and maybe some war or some mercantile activity or political intrigue... and it is about both, together, interacting with each other, as we collaborate in telling each other the story of what's happening in the universe of our characters. It is about sharing ourselves and our imaginations. And we've been doing it for thousands of years, even without technology.

And I, for one, wouldn't be the person I am today, living in the society I live in today, without that.

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

To get back even closer to the original topic :idea: of this thread... I think the FLGS will survive the shift into digital publishing. There are advantages to the canvas bag of books and dice and so on; there are advantages to the electronic document. The FLGS will survive, though it, too, will have to change. Some of the changes will need to be technological; perhaps we are seeing the start of it now, with the partnership whose name I forget, but which involves partnerships between publishers and stores (Dale, are you around? I think I remember you being involved with it...). Perhaps the future FLGS will sport a Print-On-Demand kiosk, and a sales terminal with the ability to load e-books onto a thumb drive or burn them to an optical disk.

Some of the changes will have to be social, and will actually represent a return to the past. Your FLGS will be less a store for purchasing stuff than it will a social center. They will have to go back to having back rooms, or a room full of tables, that can be reserved and rented by the hour. They will be places for people to meet, and to discuss gaming, and to game, and to talk about what's good and what's not, and to cross-fertilize imaginations.

In other words, the FLGS will become less a gaming STORE, and more a gaming SERVICE CENTER. Because, like gaming itself, and in spite of the fact that Big Corporations seem to have forgotten it, running a business, especially a retail business, is ultimately about people.
 
FreeTrav said:
In other words, the FLGS will become less a gaming STORE, and more a gaming SERVICE CENTER.
What I see over here looks more like a development in the opposite di-
rection.

In order to become a "gaming service center" the FLGS needs a rather
high local "gamer population density", a high enough number of gamers
to order prints on demand at the kiosk, download e-books at the sales
terminal and rent the backroom. This may be possible in one of the ma-
jor cities, perhaps in up to a dozen locations in all of Germany, but any-
where else there would not be enough potential customers for such a
concept.

And the only way to attract a high enough number of potential customers
away from the few excellent locations with many gamers in a travelling
distance from the FLGS is deleting the "L" from FLGS by running an online
shop, which has the problem that each online shop has to compete with
all other online shops in the same country (and often beyond), a situation
which has the tendency to steadily decrease the number of such shops
until only a few of them are left.

In the end there will probably be a few "service centers" in the big cities,
each of them also running an online shop, but for most of the country the
FLGS will be a thing of the past, just like the local music shop (already an
extreme rarity) and the local bookshop (most only still surviving because
books have fixed prices over here).
 
Somebody said:
As for computers and age:

51, USAF 20 years Electronics Tech and computers/networks back from when the x286 chip was "the bomb".
AAS in Health Info Tech
BS in Comp Sci
BS in MGT Info Systems
Masters in Computer Resource Information Management

My last year in the USAF Before retiring, and two years following I taught C++ Programing, VB Programming, A+, Network+ and Systems Analysis & Design
Contributing editor to a regional computer magazine with a regular monthly column for 24 months, plus similar articles for a magazine for Atari ST (not monthly column) as well as newspapers for various bases I was assigned to.

I've been working with computers since the late 70's. If you remember the green screen vector graphic terminals used in the original Battlestar Galactica, that's what filled our engineering computer lab. I also worked on mainframes in Cobol, PL/I, and Fortran.

I've owned an ran a successful in-home computer consulting and repair business (closed because I was shipped to another base).

Gaming Wise I've worked for Kenzer&Co, AEG, Columbia Games, Twilight Creations, HERO System, and Wizards of the Coast (3 years till just after 4th ed came out). All as a game demonstrator where I tended to be in the top 3 for productivity. WotC selected me to work at Gencon in '07 and '08 (then budget cuts).

I currently own over 60+ GB of just Gaming/RPG PDFs. My PDF's significantly outnumber the actual physical books I own. Yet I print out PDF's put them in a binder and always prefer the physical version..

Oh, I use an HP Win7 Tablet (touch screen & can twist around to use the keybaord, 6 gb of ram, gorgeous ATI Radion videoboard, 500GB HDD HDMI out etc.) and I still prefer physical books most of the time.

I've been taking laptops to conventions since 1999. I've been hauling books since 1981 when I was first introduced to AD&D. I have arthritis in my hands and knees, peripheral neuropathy in both legs below the knees (read: random sharp stabbing shooting pains in various places). I have a bad lower back.

Yet still, I bring the computer and my books that I feel I need to reference. At one time that was ever book WotC put out for D&D 3.5

Over the years between smart phones, even just texting cellphones, laptops, net books, tablets I've had more games held up, disrupted, etc. by players with these toys than I care to think about. You do what you want but I've got the first hand experience and track record to justify me saying "get the damm thing off my gaming table!"
And so even though I am a big technology user, I still prefer dead tree.

ADDED: I keep all my gaming oriented PDFs in one folder on my drive, and forgot to add this - by the "properties" feature in Windows I have 8,968 files in 847 folders for a total size of 69.0 GB (74,187,016,268 bytes). No smart device would hold it all, and most don't provide a convenient way to shuffle stuff onto/off of it without a computer to hook it to. It's why I didn't get the iPad I wanted.
 
Somebody said:
GamerDude said:
Somebody said:
As for computers and age:

<cut>
Over the years between smart phones, even just texting cellphones, laptops, net books, tablets I've had more games held up, disrupted, etc. by players with these toys than I care to think about. You do what you want but I've got the first hand experience and track record to justify me saying "get the damm thing off my gaming table!"
And so even though I am a big technology user, I still prefer dead tree.

I guess this is the important part of your post. You had bad experiences, I have not. So for you those systems are gamebreakers, for me they are game enablers/enhancers. You will not allow them on the table and I can not/will not game in a group where the GM forbids them.
And there lies the crux of what I said to you/about your position: I have a great deal of justification for my position based on the fact the disruption has been like 1000 times worse than any enhancement. My POV comes from extensive experience with how disruptive they easily can be to the game, to the other players. As GM it's my job (with the help of the players) to provide a good environment, and a good game.

You just say "I want this enhancement, that's the way it's going to be, or else." with no apparent understanding of what that means at games. In fact you make that stand with a seemingly total disregard for anything but yourself, the GM's POV can go to hell. I allowed everything, these smart devices at my table for several years until I had enough. oh well. It's clear to me at least any table I run definitely would be better off just in not having someone with your self-focused point of view at it.

Y'know. What surprises me is what you haven't said, the simple things that would make your position reasonable. You've never countered that you would just hand the device down the table to the GM when they want to see the character sheet, that you would do so without complaining about handing over the device, or making the GM come to you, or without standing right there watching what the GM is looking at. That failure screams to me you would be the problem child, disrupting the game with refusals etc.

Oh, as far as dice rolling on an electronic device goes? Unless it is specially written to use some source for truly random numbers (like based on the static being received by space telescopes) your "random numbers" are pseudo random. Just a big giant list of number between 0.00000 and 1.00000 that the OS of the device doles out in order (the starting point chosen in various ways). Physical dice are much more random.

P.S. I have a gentleman in my current Serenity-Traveller game. He has a back injury with nerve damage affecting the tactile sensations of his arms and hands. All plastic (including dice) feel I think he told me like slime or a mass of tingling as he touches them. *HE* is allowed at small laptop/tablet and all he uses it for is dice rolling (uses the WotC dice roller page) and he still uses a physical written character sheet because I asked him to do like everyone else.

Guess I'm not so intractable when the other person works with me, and doesn't just stop their foot on the ground going "I WANT THIS"

Peace Out!
 
GamerDude said:
In fact you make that stand with a seemingly total disregard for anything but yourself, the GM's POV can go to hell.
Since Somebody obviously plays regularly with at least one referee and
several players who share his point of view, this is obviously wrong. And
if you mean that he does not share your point of view, this has been ob-
vious for several days now - and there is no reason at all why he should
share your opinion, or you should share his, as you two will certainly ne-
ver encounter each other at the same gaming table.

He does it his way, you do it your way, and it would really be nice if this
carousel would stop now - please.
 
Somebody said:
Now the owner is relocating to a "pure warehouse" location and has the "great" idea to "open on demand" ...
This is without any doubt by far the most brainless "business model"
I have ever heard of. :shock:
 
rust said:
This is without any doubt by far the most brainless "business model"
I have ever heard of. :shock:

At least you have a heads up where to soon go to for. "going out of business" super gaming deals. :lol:
 
rust said:
This is without any doubt by far the most brainless "business model"
I have ever heard of. :shock:

Agreed. If you just want to be a faceless warehouse, what distinguishes you from - say - Amazon? There's nothing stopping Somebody going direct to the publishers/paint manufacturers/whatever aside from a desire to browse... This is the wonder and curse of teh interwebz.
 
Somebody: don't blame you...

I'm self employed - customer service is everything... I'm available 7 days a week (although no callouts on a sunday unless urgent - I need one day to relax a bit) and often work up until the early hours when I have the work...

The whole idea of closing up shop - unless you want something - is not only crazy, but sounds to me like he's thinking of closing up completely...

That or he's fed up with having to get down to the shop each day and has plenty of internet business right now. But I've learned that you grab whatever business you can, when you can...

Personally, I'd be going the other way - offering regular customers a coffee and a few biccies and getting a comfy chair or five in from the local second-hand dealer to make a reading area - encourage people to slow down, stay and possibly read a few books so that they can then buy them (people tend to buy books more readily when they can see what's in them beforehand).

The only reason I can think of for closing up like that might be poor health...
 
The whole idea of closing up shop - unless you want something - is not only crazy, but sounds to me like he's thinking of closing up completely...

Not impossible.


Personally, I'd be going the other way - offering regular customers a coffee and a few biccies and getting a comfy chair or five in from the local second-hand dealer to make a reading area - encourage people to slow down, stay and possibly read a few books so that they can then buy them (people tend to buy books more readily when they can see what's in them beforehand).

Agreed. There is a reason that "Bookshop with branch of Costa Coffee inside" has become a standard fixture in city centres.
 
In my experience roleplaying games shops and scale model shops are
from entirely different planets. With one single exception I have never
encountered a salesperson from a German roleplaying games shop who
really had an idea what he or she was selling and had the basics of the
social skills and the patience required to run a shop, while all salesper-
sons from scale model shops whom I have encountered had an astoni-
shing knowledge of scale models and everything connected with them
and the social skills to make shopping a pleasure.
 
Actually, that's the kind of shop I prefer for modelling materials... the DIY look - it basically says to me: He (the shop owner) cares more about his products and services than to spend a fortune on fancy fittings and also cares about his customers - since he set up a modelling area too.

Over here in the UK, model shops that I've seen tended to be either parts of newsagents or cramped affairs where you could barely get past each other in the aisles...

I, personally, hate the kinds of shops where the fittings and advertising overshadows the actual products - you need some advertisng, to attract attention initially and to fill up blank areas, but I'd sooner see floor to ceiling products like he's got... and the wood shelves actually help to tone things down a touch...

I'd definitely go there... :)
 
rust said:
In my experience roleplaying games shops and scale model shops are
from entirely different planets. With one single exception I have never
encountered a salesperson from a German roleplaying games shop who
really had an idea what he or she was selling and had the basics of the
social skills and the patience required to run a shop, while all salesper-
sons from scale model shops whom I have encountered had an astoni-
shing knowledge of scale models and everything connected with them
and the social skills to make shopping a pleasure.

That's actually a very good point... a lot are ex-services (or children of such) too, who loved the vehicles or aircraft that they used to serve with and it grows from there... roleplayers tend to stick to their own groups and (personal experience) it tends to be either roleplayers who have more goodwill than business sense (they tend to vanish pretty quickly), roleplayers who have the business sense but not much in the way of social graces or the business-minded people who know pretty much nothing about the hobby, but needed a (zero VAT-rated) product to sell alongside (usually) books or wargaming models.

Incidently, if that's what you call "Railway Station" standard, Somebody, I'll gladly visit yours - it's better than ours, unless they've improved in recent years...
 
BFalcon said:
Incidently, if that's what you call "Railway Station" standard, Somebody, I'll gladly visit yours - it's better than ours, unless they've improved in recent years...
Well, you could try this one here in Augsburg ... :

http://www.modellbau-koch.de/index.php/sites/view/3-1-rundgang.html
 
No way - that one looks too polished for my tastes - he's got everything facing the customer on display - nothing to browse through and he's mainly relying on RC products and makes a point of displaying them...

I don't mind displaying some key products, but I personally think that you should encourage customers to come up close and see exactly which models you have in a stack. OK, so a stack that's too tall is cumbersome, but one that's only a few high on each shelf is ideal - encourages customers to pick things up. It's when people have something in their hands that they tend to look at them more closely - looking at a box that's on display tends just to make people look and walk on... at least to me.

And what's with the gold stars hanging from the ceiling???
 
BFalcon said:
And what's with the gold stars hanging from the ceiling???
It was during the Christmas business, they had just redecorated their new
shop after moving there from a "train station". Meanwhile the shop looks
more like something you could like and less like a freshly decorated shop
window, I agree that they overdid it when they opened. :lol:
 
Here where I am we have:
1) The oldest shop around bought 10 years ago by one of the earlier employees (who then closed down the store he already owned). He's even bought out the store that opened in protest of his "policies" (they couldn't do whatever they wanted) less than 2 years after they opened.

But, while he is the biggest and oldest Game & Comic shop, has the inside track to any big CCG pre-releases etc. He and his staff don't give a crap about the customers. One person I know went in to buy the Savage Worlds core book and the employee was adamant that "Pinnacle went out of business years ago" even though the store had an entire shelf load of the newest supplements (just no core book) AND refused to look at the distributor's catalog listing the company and all their current products.

When the store moved to its current location (about 6 years ago) a different friend went in and asked the owner if he had see/heard about any copies of the AD&D module "White Plume Mountain" for sale. The owner's response? "No I haven't and if I did I wouldn't sell it to you, I can get 50 dollars for it on eBay". Nothing like telling a regular customer you felt he was too cheap to buy the very module he's looking to buy.

Finally, as other stores opened he whined and bitched "why are these guys opening stores? I've been here for ages don't they understand there's no room for more stores?" (I.E. his crappy customer service is no reason anyone should open their own store).

2)The "hobby store" with a gaming section that let an employee (formerly of the store that got bought out above) and actually would wear the shirts of that former store to work... let him decide what the store should carry sell. So when the "Friday Night 40k" became the "Friday Night Open Gaming" with Flames of War pulling everyone out of 40k, he restricted Friday to "40k only, Flames of War is on Sundays"... and that conflicted with the major FoW events at a nearby store which everyone from Friday was going to. The entire FoW section got sold off at 50% off. He is a rep for Reaper paints/minis and had the store order literally *everything* in the Reaper catalog games, minis, paints. And they sat around. Six months after the employee quit they sold it all off at 30%-50% off.

If you aren't a major regular buyer there they'll be nice to you, but aren't interested in carrying anything they don't already carry (and if you order it - paying up front - there is no guarantee you will get it and getting your money back can be a bitch they just keep trying to talk you into getting something else.)

There are other smaller stores in town but, they pretty much follow the model of the first to in their own ways.
 
Somebody said:
Today l got rid of the last paper RPG stuff, blue binned some SR rules. All is now PDF thanKs to FFE,RTal etc bringing them out cheap. And with my SOLARIS box up and running an XClient character generation can finally be done by n people at the same time by running an XServer,...
Nice, if only I could afford stuff like that (and had the space to play in my small apartment).

Only iThingy guys end up waiting since they lack an XServer (irony given iOS roots) or have to borrow a spare Droid tablet
*laughs* ahh yes, all the great things about an iThingy. And I saw today companies ignoring the "bluetooth keyboard connection" instead making special keyboards to fit the iThingy interface. My Acer Android tablet works quite well with the under-functional keyboard from my iMac - plugging directly into my tablet's USB jack.

I get lots of dirty looks from the iThingy crowd for that!
 
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