Suggestions for stats for some new weapons

[Timestheus]

I am interested in what some people think would be appropriate damage for a few weapons.

First off would be the rapier. This would be a popular choice for the fencing masters of Zingara.

Second would be the falcata which would be a popular weapon choice for a barbarian since it combines the cleaving power of an axe with the utility of a sword.

Finally would be the pilum. This I could see as being a popular weapon to equip Nemedian infantry. The pilum was designed with an armor piercing tip which would be a possible move by the Nemedians to stop the powerful calvary of the Aquilanian military.


Any ideas on stats on these weapons?

 

[sidkfjjteidlkkf]

Two answers:

Your best bet is to get ahold of the SRD for D20 and go from there. Weapons are not that hard to do.

Use a weapon already in the book that gets as close as you can, and modify it a tad...

 

[FailedSpotCheck]

For Pilum I would use stats for light spear or somesuch and boost the AP by +1. You may have a rule that does not allow the pilum to be used more than once, since I have heard that the wooden shaft was designed to separate after impact from the metal half to keep the "barbarians" from throwing it back, as the Gauls were wont to do. YMMV.

 

[Clovenhoof]

IIRC the wooden shaft did not come off, but the iron part between the steel tip and the wooden shaft would bend. This was supposed to prevent the Pilum being thrown back, yes, and ideally even from being pulled out of the shield, to render the shield too cumbersome and thus useless.

Apart from that:

Rapier - I'd advise against using it, because it's so different in style - and genre - from all other weapons. I don't know if rapiers appear in any Howard story at all, but I guess they don't. It's simply not a weapon for a barbaric world. (I could elaborate about this and that, but I rest my case now.)

That being said, if I were to use the rapier, I'd convert the official D20 stats as follows:

Rapier - OH-Martial - Finesse - 200sp - d8 - 18-20/x2 - piercing - AP1 - 1,5lb.

And for the Falcata, which is indeed a nice and genre-appropriate weapon, you can just as well treat it as scimitar stats-wise.

 

[merkkari-masa]

what you guys would give to Pilum stats?

 

[Tathlum]

Spear range and damage and a very high AP.

 

[Clovenhoof]

The primary use of a Pilum was to disable a large shield and not pierce heavy body armour. So I wouldn't make the AP too high. It's also going to be tricky to make up a good working rule how a shield is hit, especially as there are different shield sizes.

Suggestion:

Pilum* - OH Simple Ranged - 3sp - d8 - x2 - 2** - 20ft - 2,5lb

Special rule: if a Pilum hits a shield, the attack is resolved as a sunder attempt. If any damage is done to the shield [i.e. Hardness is overcome], the Pilum is stuck in the shield and bends upon attempted removal.

I thought about it for a few minutes and couldn't come up with a good, working and balanced mechanism to determine when the shield is hit. If anyone has an idea, please post it. For the time being, I'm staying away of using this technique in my game.

 

[Tathlum]

The OP wanted it as a Nemedian weapon to counter knights. So it would have to be high AP to be worth bothering. In tabletop wargaming they are great against armour. In that light I'd give it a huge AP. The spear/javelins damage isn't going to break the game, just add a little colour.

Or to simplify the anti shield effect, give the user of the Pilum the option of attacking the enemies shield instead of the person. If they get a hit the enemy loses the shield as its now to heavy to use. On a crit the shield is destroyed. Dont bother complicating with sunders and so on...

 

[Clovenhoof]

The OP wanted it as a Nemedian weapon to counter knights.

Well it would be handy to have such a weapon, but that shouldn't be called a Pilum then, if you want to avoid confusion. It's pretty clear what a Pilum was historically, and between it and the armoured knight lies about a thousand years.

The basic weapon to counter cavalry is the pike. It's a melee weapon but it does what it's supposed to do. I can't think of a historical precedence for relatively slow travelling throwing spears with an arced trajectory and short range to be employed against charging armoured riders. It just doesn't make much sense.

 

[Tathlum]

Romans versus Parthian Cataphracts?

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Dear All,

Certainly against the armoured Alani, the Romans formed their legions up as a shield wall and jabbed with their pila - as the Alans had no shields to disable. A barrage of arrows and stones helped to dissuade the nomads as well.

Regards

 

[Timestheus]

IIRC the wooden shaft did not come off, but the iron part between the steel tip and the wooden shaft would bend. This was supposed to prevent the Pilum being thrown back, yes, and ideally even from being pulled out of the shield, to render the shield too cumbersome and thus useless.

Apart from that:

Rapier - I'd advise against using it, because it's so different in style - and genre - from all other weapons. I don't know if rapiers appear in any Howard story at all, but I guess they don't. It's simply not a weapon for a barbaric world. (I could elaborate about this and that, but I rest my case now.)

That being said, if I were to use the rapier, I'd convert the official D20 stats as follows:

Rapier - OH-Martial - Finesse - 200sp - d8 - 18-20/x2 - piercing - AP1 - 1,5lb.

And for the Falcata, which is indeed a nice and genre-appropriate weapon, you can just as well treat it as scimitar stats-wise.

I am not sure about the Falcata being similar stats to the scimitar. The two are very different. The falcata was a budgeoning sword whose shape imparted an axe-like smash to its strike. The scimitar is curved the opposite way to increase its cutting ability by sliding easily along its target. The only similarity between the two is that both are lousy when it comes to stabbing someone.

As for the pilum. It would have been quite effective against knights. The pilum was designed to punch through armor and then depending on the model of pilum either the metal shaft detached or it bent. A bent pilum lodged in your shield would render the shield useless and force the mounted knight to drop it which would render him much more vulnerable in battle.

As for the rapier the stats sound fine to me. The increased crit range would make sense with how flexible the blade was which could allow it to slide between pieces in armor.

 

[Clovenhoof]

I am not sure about the Falcata being similar stats to the scimitar. The two are very different. The falcata was a budgeoning sword whose shape imparted an axe-like smash to its strike. The scimitar is curved the opposite way to increase its cutting ability by sliding easily along its target. The only similarity between the two is that both are lousy when it comes to stabbing someone.

Make no mistake about the Falcata. ^^ Very few specimens are preserved to this day, but the following is established:
1.) the Falcata was a pretty light weapon, with a very thin blade. Don't let cheap replicas fool you. Total weight was certainly below 2 lbs. Due to the thinness of the blade, it can be deduced that it was pretty sharp.
2.) the cutting section of a Falcata edge is concave, just like a sabre's edge, not "the opposite way".
3.) we don't know what the inventors of the weapon called the Falcata, but the Romans referred to it as "Spanish sabre" (the name "Falcata" is a modern invention).

Confer this museum exhibit:

Actually I tried to write up a fresh set of stats for the Falcata, but then discovered that they'd look pretty much exactly like the Sciminar stats. So I'd leave it at that.
Hope this helps.

 

[Timestheus]

I am not sure about the Falcata being similar stats to the scimitar. The two are very different. The falcata was a budgeoning sword whose shape imparted an axe-like smash to its strike. The scimitar is curved the opposite way to increase its cutting ability by sliding easily along its target. The only similarity between the two is that both are lousy when it comes to stabbing someone.

Make no mistake about the Falcata. ^^ Very few specimens are preserved to this day, but the following is established:
1.) the Falcata was a pretty light weapon, with a very thin blade. Don't let cheap replicas fool you. Total weight was certainly below 2 lbs. Due to the thinness of the blade, it can be deduced that it was pretty sharp.
2.) the cutting section of a Falcata edge is concave, just like a sabre's edge, not "the opposite way".
3.) we don't know what the inventors of the weapon called the Falcata, but the Romans referred to it as "Spanish sabre" (the name "Falcata" is a modern invention).

Confer this museum exhibit:

Actually I tried to write up a fresh set of stats for the Falcata, but then discovered that they'd look pretty much exactly like the Sciminar stats. So I'd leave it at that.
Hope this helps.

Actually I have read up quite a bit on the hispanian sabre so I do know a fair bit about it. For one thing instead of having a thich blade that was sharpened to a point it entire blade was sharpened so that the blade was much lighter than replicas and the blade was a triagular shape instead of a rectangle of iron with a triangle of sharpened metal at the tip.

As for the similarity to the scimitar. The scimitars curve runs its whole length and flows with a slashing attack. Roman history reports that the falcata was used in a downward strike that was more of a chopping motion. This motion combined with the much shorter curve of the blade make it more like the chop of an axe than the smooth slice of a scimitar.


For stats I am thinking the following:

Falcata OH-Exotic - 1D10 - 20 x 3 - bludgeoning - AP3 - 2lbs

I would also consider some sort of bonus when someone attempts a disarm on someone with a falcata due to the enclosed grip making it easier to hold onto the weapon.

 

[Clovenhoof]

Well, it's your game, and the game police ain't gonna bust your session whatever you do. And maybe the strike is more like a chop than a slice.
But a Falcata still isn't a bludgeoning weapon by any stretch of imagination. oÔ

'sides, why on Earth would any player invest an exotic proficiency feat into a weapon that has the same stats as a regular battle-axe, except for worse AP?

 

[Timestheus]

Well, it's your game, and the game police ain't gonna bust your session whatever you do. And maybe the strike is more like a chop than a slice.
But a Falcata still isn't a bludgeoning weapon by any stretch of imagination. oÔ

'sides, why on Earth would any player invest an exotic proficiency feat into a weapon that has the same stats as a regular battle-axe, except for worse AP?

Couple reasons.

First you can put it in a sheath, so its more portable than a battleaxe. Second I would give it a bonus when someone attempted to disarm you and it would get bonuses when you try to pull it out of someone that you just stuck through them.

I would also make it a automatic martial weapon for the barbarians of whatever region I gave the weapon to. This would make it a more regional weapon. So the reason I am making it exotic is so that few people from outside that region will be seen using it.

Based on the various estimates for the weight of these weapons I could almost make it a light weapon but the abuse there could be horrible. An of-hand weapon that does 1D10 is way too much even if you have to get it via an EWP. So instead I make it just about the lightest medium weapon out there.

 

[Clovenhoof]

I also thought about suggesting it as a light weapon, but then decided against it because that would make it impossible to use it with Power Attack, and that seems to be the main idea of the weapon.

 

[Timestheus]

I also thought about suggesting it as a light weapon, but then decided against it because that would make it impossible to use it with Power Attack, and that seems to be the main idea of the weapon.

Yeah that would be a major limitation on the weapon. One can easily imagine Conan splitting some poor sods helmet (and head) in half with a downward smash of a falcata.