Stunner rules and Endurance check through armor

[Kaelic]

I've read it over and over and as far as I can see the Endurance check from a stunner must still be made even if all Stun 'damage' is blocked by armor. This seems to me to be an easy loophole to bring anyone down with ease as it's very easy to fail an Average endurance check at +0. Am I reading this wrong? Has it been clarified?

I could just as easily house rule it that it must apply at least 1 damage in order to force an Endurance check.

 

[sideranautae]

I've read it over and over and as far as I can see the Endurance check from a stunner must still be made even if all Stun 'damage' is blocked by armor.

An electrical stunner?

 

[CosmicGamer]

If you roll for "possible" stun damage and there is none after armor is subtracted....

Nothing specific spelled out, but one could interpret things such that the endurance roll is not necessary if there is no stun damage (that gets past the armor).

sometimes you need to use some personal discretion and not take wording as being 100% literal in all cases. For example

A character struck by a stun weapon must make an Endurance check

so if I have a ranged stun weapon and I use it as an improvised weapon to bash someone over the head with it like a club I did still strike them with a stun weapon...

Perhaps think of it as "A character who receives stun damage" instead of just "A character struck by a stun weapon"

I guess if you really go strictly by the wording then animals do not roll when struck by a stun weapon, just characters...

 

[Mytholder]

Yeah, you still have to make an unmodified Endurance check after being stunned.

I recommend adding an option that can be added to full-body armour cheaply that makes the wearer immune to stunners, and a higher-TL, higher-cost option/gadget that works with any armour. That keeps stunners useful for their intended purpose (giving PCs a non-lethal weapon against minor bad guys or animals) without making them overpowered.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I've read it over and over and as far as I can see the Endurance check from a stunner must still be made even if all Stun 'damage' is blocked by armor. This seems to me to be an easy loophole to bring anyone down with ease as it's very easy to fail an Average endurance check at +0. Am I reading this wrong? Has it been clarified?

I could just as easily house rule it that it must apply at least 1 damage in order to force an Endurance check.

Armor does not protect someone from being stunned. It just helps them endure it more. Stunning does not use bullet damage against you or your armor. It uses END rolls to get you.

 

[Jame Rowe]

Yeah, you still have to make an unmodified Endurance check after being stunned.

I recommend adding an option that can be added to full-body armour cheaply that makes the wearer immune to stunners, and a higher-TL, higher-cost option/gadget that works with any armour. That keeps stunners useful for their intended purpose (giving PCs a non-lethal weapon against minor bad guys or animals) without making them overpowered.

And makes it fairly useful for those PCs who, when going out on the town and being armorless nuisances (e.g. deliberately picking fights), need to be reminded how civilized behavior works.

Great minds think alike, though; I had been thinking this.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Alright. Just happened to be looking at Supplement 04 CSC and it has a section on stunners and shock weapons. First off, animals and not just characters can now be stunned :mrgreen: because it says

When a target is hit by a stunner or shock weapon

It also has the following to say about this topic

If all the damage is resisted by armour then there is no further effect.

and also it uses the term "any damage penetrating".

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

The beauty of CSC and all the black books is that they are generically used for all kinds of settings. So your Universe may vary.

 

[Kaelic]

Thanks, that solved it!

I don't mind interpreting rules but I tend to prefer to understanding the intended design before I alter it.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Also the new Mercenary 2nd Edition specifically says that the Endurance Check is made against any damage AFTER it is reduced by Armour. So if nothing gets through the armour, you roll against a 0 (always win).

 

[Kaelic]

Also the new Mercenary 2nd Edition specifically says that the Endurance Check is made against any damage AFTER it is reduced by Armour. So if nothing gets through the armour, you roll against a 0 (always win).

Where is this? I have the book and after searching for: stun, stunner, endurance I can't find what you're referring to.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Also the new Mercenary 2nd Edition specifically says that the Endurance Check is made against any damage AFTER it is reduced by Armour. So if nothing gets through the armour, you roll against a 0 (always win).

Where is this? I have the book and after searching for: stun, stunner, endurance I can't find what you're referring to.

Well heck, now that you put me on the spot, I don't seem to be able to find it. I KNOW I read it within the last couple of days and I thought it was in Merc2. Let me do some more digging.