Starship Troopers Evolution

[mthomason]

I'm wondering about the following:

Maybe, just maybe, the people who get into the game with the prepainted minis will get around to making minor modifications to their figures to individualise them. Once their skills increase, they can move onto buying a small number of unpainted minis to create a truly individual centrepiece for their army - they can move at their own pace without the daunting task of seeing a box of 50 unpainted minis on the shelf and not buying it because they dont think they'll ever get around to doing them.

And hey, these new players will hopefully end up coming here, where we can all encourage them to try painting some things for themselves too

I enjoy painting too, but over the past few weeks I've been "won over" by the idea that not every single figure I game with has to have been painted by me - there'll be a new option.

 

[Malgamus]

I'm already won over in that area. I plan on individualizing my minis with emblems and such. Eventually, I may try to paint or improve the job of some uber models in small amounts. Im just glad I dont have the paint everything I buy.

Alot of people don't like painting, I'm one of those people. I tried it way back with 40k and had ill-fated results. It was nerve-racking trying to paint the details on my rines or the Skaven I got and the fact that most people wouldn't even play with me unless they were painted was even worse. I never really got to play the game but a few times because of that. The worst part was me buidling up my excitment by reading the fluff in the RB and then not being able to enjoy it in the game later. The same thing happened with WM, I still have prime and love the material within but the daunting task of painting an army keeps me from buying any minis. All I got from painting was a headache from focusing on the small details of the models for hours on end.

I have plenty of respect for the people who do paint their own and do a great job of it. I wish I had their talent and time to do so myself but I know I'm not an artistic person. I'm glad this is happening, I've wanted in to the Wargamming hobby for sometime. I just hope you guys don't hate on people because they choose not to paint themselves. As long as we aren't acting like fools we should be welcomed cause in the end it means a better future for the game for everyone.

 

[mthomason]

As long as we aren't acting like fools we should be welcomed cause in the end it means a better future for the game for everyone.

Welcome

At the end of the day, I don't know if the person on the other side of the table painted those miniatures themselves or paid someone to do it for them, so I can't see why playing against someone with prepainted minis will be any different to any other opponent

 

[Poko]

Max-i guess it was aimed at me?
firstly, it seems that i turned to be terribly anti-paint in that post-not entirely true: i do enjoy the act of painting(if it's in small quantities-painting multiples of something is just mind-numbing), but i have no doubts about my skill, which coupled with a bit of perfectionism(not in every aspect of life, but when i do decide to something out of my own will, i do try to get the best results) leads to frustration.

OT: even if i never learned to play any sort of instrument, i can still apreciate the end result that a song/instrumental piece is, same with sculpting or painting.

 

[Greg Smith]

Lets look at Airfix the great british boys pastime of the 60's and 70's , sure the models were tough to make , but that was half the challenge .
The company dumbed down the models , for the instant fix and now a great piece of english history has gone down the pan.

john

Now Airfix is something I was going to use as a metaphor the other way.

Airfix went bankrupt in the 80's when computer games came out. Now some of their models became easier and required no glue.

Airfix proved unable to meet the demands of a changing marketplace and their parent company has gone bust.

If Mongoose and other games companies are unable to meet the demands of a changing marketplace, they to will go under (like GOO) or struggle to produce anything (like AEG, Eden and many others).

I for one am glad that Mongoose is changing rather than stagnating and breathing new life into a game that buy all accounts was struggling to find its place in the market.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

I don't really understand how anyone can be so anti painting to be honest.
It strikes me that these are also the same sort of poeple which never bothered to learn to play a musical instrument, or tried learning a secound language (Or a third or a fourth etc), try sculpting the list goes on.
I might be wrong, and I hope I am because otherwise the only reason they'd be so pissed of is because of a feeling of inadaquacy... To those people try and understand its not elitism, its just how in the hell are you gonna be able to appreciate a technique if you have no idea how its done?

I'm sorry, but that just strikes me as snobbery. There's plenty of people who haven't the time, talent or interest in painting. I personally know tons of people who play Axis and Allies, or MechWarrior or Heroclix and a major reason is that they don't have to paint their minis. SST is a far superior system, and if Matt's assertations are correct the new minis will blow the aforementioend ones out of the water. Why shouldn't they be playing SST along with those of us who love to paint and model?

and just to remind everyone again, Mongoose are keeping the current line of minis in production. There's nothing stopping you from just using them.

 

[emperorpenguin]

If Mongoose and other games companies are unable to meet the demands of a changing marketplace, they to will go under (like GOO) or struggle to produce anything (like AEG, Eden and many others).

I for one am glad that Mongoose is changing rather than stagnating and breathing new life into a game that buy all accounts was struggling to find its place in the market.

Eden really collapsed big time from their initial surge of products in the mid 90s
I'd certainly not want to see Mongoose go the same way

 

[BuShips]

I gotta agree really, it's only the painting aspect of wargaming that lends it any kind of credibility, I always tell girls I paint if they ask, until Im sure they're ready to know the truth
If you take away the paitning you are playing with little men, if those little men come prepainted and have moveable arms and legs they are action figures (hell thats more posability than some of the ones I had as a kid!).
I'm sorry if people don't like the truth, it might well be easier and all the rest but its removing at least half of the hobby, how are you meant to make playing with toy soldiers without the painting aspect sound cool :?:

I don't care so much mind since I'll be painting other stuff anyway, but it means newer players aren't going to have any incentive to hone a creative skill as part of the hobby, they're just gonna buy the stuff and play, its the end of an era which is kind of sad isn't it?

Besides everyone knows that computer games were better back then!

Well, to borrow Greg's nifty new bbCode Tags, [sarcasm] you guys can read the S&P Scenic Mayhem articles with renewed vigor because the minis will be done and you can concentrate more fully on the terrain boards [/sarcasm]. MUAhahaha! :roll: .

 

[Greg Smith]

I don't really understand how anyone can be so anti painting to be honest.

No-one is being anti-painting. They are anti-anti-pre-painted.

It strikes me that these are also the same sort of poeple which never bothered to learn to play a musical instrument, or tried learning a secound language (Or a third or a fourth etc), try sculpting the list goes on.

Actually I never tried to learn a musical instrument. I don't have a musical bone in my body.

Life is to short too put a lot of effort into learning something that I don't enjoy and I am not very good at. Some people feel that about painting.

I might be wrong, and I hope I am because otherwise the only reason they'd be so pissed of is because of a feeling of inadaquacy...

I can paint. I enjoy painting. But I don't want to have to paint.

its just how in the hell are you gonna be able to appreciate a technique if you have no idea how its done?

I guess I can't enjoy Beethoven if I've never played a violin then. :roll:

To those people try and understand its not elitism

It certainly sounds like it. Especially when there is nothing stopping you painting. You will still be able to repaint the prepainted minis. You just won't have to paint if you don't want to.

NO ONE IS STOPPING YOU PAINTING!

 

[BuShips]

BTW, I love painting, thus why I borrowed Greg's "computer code". Hey, that reminds me. Since I had to type each of the letters in the code individually, can someone make a macro or even a button on the Forum to make this easier :?:. I know I should have placed that comment between sar-brackets :wink: .

 

[BuShips]

BTW, I love painting, thus why I borrowed Greg's "computer code". Hey, that reminds me. Since I had to type each of the letters in the code individually, can someone make a macro or even a button on the Forum to make this easier :?:. I know I should have placed that comment between sar-brackets :wink: .

Ducks, waiting for incoming fire :lol: .

 

[emperorpenguin]

I've just one question

Does MaxSteiner ever NOT complain!? Seriously every single post of yours I've seen you are complaining about SOMETHING!
Try and be a bit more optimistic.
I welcome any opportunity to gain new gamers.
Up to now I've failed to get my brother to play SST, but a pre-painted Forth army might just do that.
Likewise in ACTA he has painted (since November) half a T'Loth out of his big Narn fleet. He just doesn't enjoy painting like me, so if he can use prepainted models he'll play more and there in my family alone we see Mongoose gaining a new customer.

 

[Rob_A]

Unfortunately, Greg's right. I do comissions, this could potentially affect me. I have no problem with it! As long as it can be re-painted, Im happy. I can paint them in alternate styles. Im sure not veryone wants green MI.
I have done re-paint jobs, for heroclix and the like. Don't worry. I think the option is a good one, more wargamers could come back because a lot have grown up not having the time to paint because of work or family, now without the need to paint, they can a little, if they wish, they can game again. They can even bring it into the family. I see no problem.

 

[MaxSteiner]

Sorry about that, it wasn't aimed at anyone at all and honestly wasn't intended as snobbery.
I don't honestly think these new wave prepainted models will have any kind of negative effect for the next couple of years, (But then nobody really believed MtG was going to kill roleplay and look what happened there they bought TSR!!!) I even think its quite a cool idea, but the danger is, ten years down the line, when these things are the norm, and every game comes prepainted, kids are going to get into the hobby, and potentially never even bother trying to paint their models, and if that happens it is the death of the hobby, the hobby of Miniature Wargaming, because without the painting and modeling aspect all you are left with is Wargaming that is to say moving playing pieces over a board according to the rules. I'm almost certain everyone on here has tried to make terrain or paint at some stage in their lives, and thats whats important because if you dont try you don't know if you're talented or not do you?
I and I'm certain most of the people who are are voicing concerns, are only angry because this could eventually (In a dark post apocolyptic future) be the end of the hobby as we know it.
If you don't like the miniature aspect of wargaming (Besides how nice they look) you are a WARGAMER and thats fine honest to god. My main opponant for SST is a Wargamer who can't understand why anyone would bother to paint their models and as a result never has(He's be just as happy with cardboard ) and I couldn't care less. But because of that he's not able to appreciate a NMM job either, it might look nice to him but he can't understand the mastery of the brush that produced it on any level other than it looking pretty and admits to it redily.
But if you are just a Wargamer don't judge us Miniature Wargamers too harshly.

I'm not judging anyone because I don't know any of you're details, ((I'm constantly shocked to discover posters on here who are fourteen and acting with more maturity and savy then I do most of the time for instance(In no way difficult I know) )), I don't like painting at times myself to be honest unless its a nice miniature I wanna be painting, rank and file, or badly done difficult to convincingly proxy models leave me cold, so I'll make use of them myself probably.
And to be honest that was pretty mild post for me, it could have been much worse then that! :lol:
Theres probably plenty of miniature wargamers who are far more reasonable then me as well so don't them by me!

Oh and to be brutally honest Greg if you've never learned to play any kind of instrument at all you would be unable to fully appreciate Beethoven's music, sorry dude but he didn't inted his music for people who have never even glanced at sheet music did he :?: .

====> Edit Try to understand EmperorPenguin, every single format I've adopted based on merit rather than being run by bastards has died, from BetaMax and Amiga, to NG pocket and Sega Saturn, Warzone and Chronopia, the Atari Jaguar the list goes on and they've all died.
Besides if you'd actually cast you're mind back almost all of my moaning was about how bad the skinnies models were and MSprange said himself the company was extremly dissapointed at them!

 

[Billy Bunter]

Oh and to be brutally honest Greg if you've never learned to play any kind of instrument at all you would be unable to fully appreciate Beethoven's music, sorry dude but he didn't inted his music for people who have never even glanced at sheet music did he :?: .

That is an utterly stupid statement, considering Beethoven was a very popular composer in his day - and his Music would have been enjoyed by a very diverse cross section of the people. Not everybody then (or now) can read music.

You don't have to be Musically trained to appreciate Music, just as you don't need to be a skilled painter to appreciate a nice looking miniature.

Thats like saying you have to have knowledge or skill involving anything and everything you EVER have an opinion on.

From what I can tell MaxSteiner, you seem to have plently of opinion on lots of things you quite obviously know little (or nothing) about.

 

[Billy Bunter]

I don't really understand how anyone can be so anti painting to be honest.

Its just the same as you being "anti everybody elses opinions".

 

[MaxSteiner]

Oh and to be brutally honest Greg if you've never learned to play any kind of instrument at all you would be unable to fully appreciate Beethoven's music, sorry dude but he didn't inted his music for people who have never even glanced at sheet music did he :?: .

That is an utterly stupid statement, considering Beethoven was a very popular composer in his day - and his Music would have been enjoyed by a very diverse cross section of the people. Not everybody then (or now) can read music.

Thats an utterly stupid commment they didn't have CD' s back then did they, so to listen to the music anywhere other than a concert you'd have to play it! Hence part of the reason for him doing piano concertos, you know for people to play at home on their piano's?
And I said fully appreciate didn't I? I must have cause its in your quote, I didn't say you can't like something. I can look at a flower and think its nice say, but without knowing anything about botony and what not I can't discern any particular facts from siad flower other than it smelling nice can I>?
If you listen to music without having any clue at all about harmony or scales likewise you are unable to discern anything regarding the musicians technique other than it sounding like they were good or bad. You can have an opinion its true, you could even have an informed opinion but you would be unable to judge the technique involved, which is once again exactly what I said...

 

[CudaHP]

Amen to that Billy Bunter, He also has a dead foul mouth if he ever sends you a PM.

He only seems to live to argue. Pathetic really.

 

[Doctor Warlock]

Oh and to be brutally honest Greg if you've never learned to play any kind of instrument at all you would be unable to fully appreciate Beethoven's music, sorry dude but he didn't inted his music for people who have never even glanced at sheet music did he :?: .

That is an utterly stupid statement, considering Beethoven was a very popular composer in his day - and his Music would have been enjoyed by a very diverse cross section of the people. Not everybody then (or now) can read music.

Thats an utterly stupid commment they didn't have CD' s back then did they, so to listen to the music anywhere other than a concert you'd have to play it! Hence part of the reason for him doing piano concertos, you know for people to play at home on their piano's?

I assume you've never heard of Concerts then, also have you ANY idea how expensive sheet music and Piano's for that matter were!

ONLY the Rich would have a Piano in their houses Max, you're just showing your ignorance now.

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

It seems to me (and I am aware of the flaming that will follow this post) that the a lot of the guys who don't relish the idea of pre-painted miniatures see them selves as some "hard done to" elite.

They like the fact that they are in a minority when it comes to Wargaming, and that they enjoy being apart (and possibly aloof) from the crowd.