Stalemate of the Mongoose: No Conan For You!

[Scorpion13]

Youve proved you can do it well with Conan, maybe another more generic line could be an option?

Runequest?

No, 4th edition.

You know, a popular system that everyone but us likes. Like that.

 

[hal]

I know I will stoned for suggesting this but was D&D4e/GSL considered?

uke: Are you retarded?

As predictable as ever

I would be interested to hear whether it was considered, given its notable absence in Mongoose's commentary on Conan D20.

 

[Strom]

6. Conan, relative to all our other game lines, was sliding. Clearly, something had to be done. A new supplement, regardless of content, would not have reversed this.

Matt - This is Mongoose's fault - not the fans and not the system. There is no way you can say Conan didn't take a backseat at Mongoose to Traveller and RQ and even smaller games. And to expect sales not to follow your focus is kinda ridiculous. Conan was barely mentioned in the last few State of Mongooses you posted and when you did you always promised something great coming but then products were delayed and taken off schedule. And the lack of focus from Mongoose (relevant to the other big games) became very evident.

I think Mongoose has created a great game and with first edition, Conan was a focus and the products and sales reflected that. For some reason Mongoose put Conan in a "secondary" position and I'm sure the sales reflected that lack of attention. And that was before the 4e introduction.

To not take a measure of responsibility for the situation as it stands now doesn't fit the reality us fans from the beginning have witnessed. Conan was a big deal once with Mongoose and the last few years we have been thrown scraps. One has to wonder if Mongoose had maintained Conan as a core game - and all the benefits that come with that kind of focus - what situation we would be in right now.

 

[hal]

Matt - This is Mongoose's fault - not the fans and not the system.

This seems like a chicken and egg situation. I understand what you are saying and think that you are correct in one sense.

However, RPG companies will put less emphasis on a line that isn't selling as well. As such, it isn't a X causes Y thing IMO. It is likely an incremental effect whereby Conan sold less, so Mongoose pushed less, so Conan sold less and so on.

I am not really sure if you can expect an RPG company to do otherwise. It is a strong trend that RPGs sell less as they get older and new editions are a way to boost sales. Mongoose tried to do just that and were prevented from their favoured choice (RQ2). The existing choice (D20) is also loosing ground quickly on all fronts.

It is also this that makes me ask if Mongoose explored D&D4e as it might have satisfied both Mongoose and the licensor. FWIW I am not suggesting that 4e is a good choice for Conan. That is a discussion for another time. However, I am interested to know how things have changed so significantly from OGL to GSL.

 

[zozotroll]

In an exchange about where Conan might go some months back Matt stated that Conan could go 4E shortly after he died. Not sure if he meant that literaly, but it certainly seems he was not thrilled with 4E

 

[cbrunish]

Matt, one question. Does Mongoose still have the liscense for Conan? If you guys (and gals) do, why can't you produce quality adventures. It won't make tons of money but I would think that keep many people satisfied (at least ME ). Even if I don't use the module I would still buy it just for background material and to read. Hell I still read my old AD&D and D&D modules. And you could create a supplement with all of the feats from the F series (and include the Iranistani).

But on one side note, at least you will still support it in S&P. There have been some excellent adventures and articles in S&P.

It's sad, because the Goose really published an excellent game in Conan. When I read the rules for the first time I really felt tranported to REH world of the Hyborian Age.

 

[flatscan]

As for the other poster who asked, we would not be averse to putting another bid in for Conan. However, I can't see that we would be willing to pay over the odds because of the presence of a film of unknown qualities (having seen what certain films and new releases did for the latter stages of B5). If the licence holders believe they can find another company who can a) pay a greater advance (possible) and b) sell more RPG books overall (really not too many of those around, even less who commonly take on licences - I can think of _one_ who might have a stab at it), then I sincerely wish them the best of luck.

What about Empires of the Hyborian Age? Please, please, please release that as a PDF at the very least. Throw it into Signs & Portents, I don't care. But we've waited so long for that title.

 

[hal]

In an exchange about where Conan might go some months back Matt stated that Conan could go 4E shortly after he died. Not sure if he meant that literaly, but it certainly seems he was not thrilled with 4E

Cheers, I suspected that may be the case

It would be interesting to know whether the licensor would have been happy to move to 4e. I suspect that they might, given their initial approval for OGL. It would also be interesting to hear Mongoose's reason why the option was or wasn't considered.

 

[Jotenbjorn]

Ugh, if there's any system that doesn't feel like Conan 4e is it. I'd try it, but 4e is only a half step above HERO in my book.

 

[hal]

Ugh, if there's any system that doesn't feel like Conan 4e is it. I'd try it, but 4e is only a half step above HERO in my book.

That's cool. As said more than once before, I am not trying to argue that 4e is the best system for Conan. There is plenty of debate on the matter and there was plenty in regard to the choice of D20 as well.

Leaving that aside, having chosen D20 the first time round, it would seem that the GSL route might have been considered.

 

[Malcadon]

The only RPG system I truly ever gave a rat's ass about is this! Even with an elf running around the place, the game still kicks ass!

 

[Yogah of Yag]

I saw this coming over the horizon some time ago, so no big surprise there.
It was THE best fantasy/sword-n-sorcery use of the d20 system I've ever seen, and it couldn't last forever.

There will be other rules, other tables to sit at, other dice to roll. Conan didn't weep, so I won't.

Well, lads, it's time to jump over to another game. How's about Traveller Conan???





Farewell and adieu, ye dark Zamoran ladies!
Farewell and adieu, ye ladies of Zamora!

 

[rabindranath72]

The only RPG system I truly ever gave a rat's ass about is this! Even with an elf running around the place, the game still kicks ass!

LOL indeed, very cool! I am still playing it, when I return to Italy to visit my friends 8)

 

[quigs]

The only RPG system I truly ever gave a rat's ass about is this! Even with an elf running around the place, the game still kicks ass!

Ah heroquest, what a great game. We played this for hours on camping trips and at friend's houses. We even started making our own "campaigns" and adventures for it.

As for the Conan RPG's fate, all I can say is that I hope whatever game system gets the license (if any) that they give it the same attention Mongoose did back in the Atlantean edition days. Their latest 2nd edition offerings have been severly lacking IMO.

In a perfect world, a Savage Worlds Conan book (similar to Solomon Kane) would get my money instantly.

 

[Malcadon]

Am I the only one who thinks a HeroQuest based system would be an awesome RPG system?

Evil Wizard Player: "Its a typical wooden door."
Barbarian Player: "I'm going to force it open!"
EWP: "OK, try to roll a white shield with your Strength Dice."
BP: *rolls* [rolls 2 skulls, and a white shield] "YES!"
EWP: "BOOM! You kicked the door open!" *sets up miniatures & props*

(I have a bit of experience with that. :wink

 

[centerfire]

I'm disappointed.

I can understand Mongoose's position. D20 is no longer setting the world on fire and so realistically the only way to gin up sales figures necessary to support product development is to re-release the game on a new engine. Whether, as Strom argues, Mongoose contributed to the problem by "back-burnering" Conan to some extent over the past couple of years is sort of beside the point: maybe that's true, but D20's salad days are undeniably behind it, and that's almost certainly the larger factor in declining sales. Even Pathfinder is appealing to a niche; I can't imagine it's much more than a loss-leader for Paizo's GameMastery products and its online store.

What rankes is that, for me, this is really a lose-lose proposition. While I am by no stretch of the imagination a D20 partisan and am not opposed in the abstract to seeing SomeNewSystem Conan, I consider the BRP and all its spawn to be awful beyond measure. So even if the license-holder suddenly reverses itself and gives Mongoose the go-ahead to produce a RQII version of Conan, it's a line I'd never buy.

Here lies Conan. RIP.

 

[Jotenbjorn]

As much as I love Conan D20 and think a lot of mistakes were made, I'd give Rune Quest a shot if Conan moved to it. I picked up a copy of RQ a good 15 years ago and wasn't really impressed, so I just put it down and never gave it a second thought. But my Conan man-crush would cause me to at least give it a shot. The only systems I've come accross that I absolutely will not play are HERO and 4e. There are other systems I don't know enough about to pass judgement on and systems I don't care for, but those are the only two I would turn my nose up at even if they had Conan.

 

[thulsa]

Even Pathfinder is appealing to a niche; I can't imagine it's much more than a loss-leader for Paizo's GameMastery products and its online store.

I'm not so sure about that. See, for example

http://paizo.com/paizo/news/v5748eaic9ma1

Now, this is of course Paizo's own marketing spin, but still it sounds like more than a "niche" product to me:

Ten days before the launch of their much-anticipated Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook, Paizo Publishing today announced that the first print run of the book has sold out, with all preordered copies on their way to stores for an August 13 release. With preorders more than five times greater than for any previous product in Paizo's seven-year history, orders for the Core Rulebook continue to mount even as the company speeds to produce another print run.

and

Playtested by more than 50,000 players over the last year, the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook is the most hotly anticipated tabletop RPG release of 2009.

With Paizo's consistently high production values, what would be fantastic was if Paizo had taken over the Conan license from Mongoose and continued the line using some (slightly adapted) Pathfinder rules. Sadly, I don't think that's ever going to happen (please prove me wrong, Paizo!), but I do think we will see fan-made adaptations of the Hyborian Age for the Pathfinder RPG.

- thulsa

 

[Jotenbjorn]

I think Pathfinder would have to be more than slightly adapted. It addressed 3.5's class balance problems by powering up all the classes, which removes it farther from the inherent grittiness of Hyboria than even 3.5 is. It would require at least as extensive a rewrite as 3e needed to fit the Conan RPG. Outside of Mongoose the company I would most like to pick up the franchise would be Green Ronin, their Mythic Vistas series was outstanding. Testament occupies a prominent place on my bookshelf. Just as long as White Wolf doesn't get a hold of it, goth Conan battling emo Thoth-Amon does not sit well with me.

 

[Malcadon]

Just as long as White Wolf doesn't get a hold of it, goth Conan battling emo Thoth-Amon does not sit well with me.

Any worse then they did with Street Fighter the Storytelling Game? :lol: (SFtSTG was not as bad as the so called Street Fighter movie, but it could have been done a lot better if they tried)