Stalemate of the Mongoose: No Conan For You!

Malcadon said:
This limbo needs not be a total waste! We - the fans - can redouble our effort at making fan-made Conan martial. We could scour the forum to find our articles, so they can be put into files, so folks can print them out and use them freely. We could do our own files, or make a common Conan e-zine - that would be awesome! I know it sounds like I'm smoking on something funny, but it would be nice to see stuff made beyond just Vincent and Thulsa. So what say you?

Good idea ! I have already given my views about the quality of the writing in some of the sourcebooks which created quite a storm elsewhere on these forums. I would love to be involved with a Conan e-zine. Time is at a premium at the moment but still happy to devote time to such a project. Possibly make it cross-system too ? Feel free to PM me.
 
Well that is really disappointing and sucks. Not surprising though, this was kinda obvious when the big news broke.

But I have to ask as it was not addressed. Are you guy going to make a bid on getting the license back or has that ship sailed?

The final thing is, in the store is that all the Conan books left? There was a couple of the other books from the "1st ed" of the game I still wanted but are no longer listed.
 
Dark Mistress said:
....But I have to ask as it was not addressed. Are you guy going to make a bid on getting the license back or has that ship sailed?

Good point ! How do Mongoose stand on that one ?
 
Mongoose is to blame, not fans or the licensing company. To claim RQ would sell better than D20 is kind of ridiculous, RQ will never ever be the future of gaming. It always has been and always will be a fringe system. I quite frankly don't blame the licensing company for blocking the move. They agreed for Conan to be released using the most successful gaming system to date and would prefer to keep it that way. If sales were faltering, an attempt should have been made to fix it. Perhaps stop producing expensive books that cause you to have expensive prices, adapt to the current economy. Perhaps a cheaper 3rd edition to tide people over until the economy turns around. But a long pause is the touch of death, it always has been and always will be. They had a pretty successful game and decided to abandon it for a less successful system, it's nobody's fault but their own.
 
squidyak said:
Mongoose is to blame, not fans or the licensing company. To claim RQ would sell better than D20 is kind of ridiculous, RQ will never ever be the future of gaming. It always has been and always will be a fringe system. I quite frankly don't blame the licensing company for blocking the move. They agreed for Conan to be released using the most successful gaming system to date and would prefer to keep it that way. If sales were faltering, an attempt should have been made to fix it. Perhaps stop producing expensive books that cause you to have expensive prices, adapt to the current economy. Perhaps a cheaper 3rd edition to tide people over until the economy turns around. But a long pause is the touch of death, it always has been and always will be. They had a pretty successful game and decided to abandon it for a less successful system, it's nobody's fault but their own.

Hummm. Your opinion... RQ a fringe system though ? A lot people would disagree. I personally found the suggestion of a Savage version of Conan to be great. Is that a "Fringe" system too ? To be honest d20 has more or less had its day. It was brilliant when current but it has fallen by the wayside. Pathfinder seems to be the only thing keeping d20 going at the mo and I believe Pathfinder Conan could have possibly worked. Moot point though. I would have liked to see RQ Conan and possibly source books could have been dual (or Tri) stated for d20 & RQ (& SW ? )

Conan books expensive ? Mate, there is a licence to pay for ! You don't blame the licencing company ? Well, then it would be your fault the licence is in its current state if you had a vote.

Look at the idea for fan stuff in a previous post here. Put those negative thoughts into positive ones. It's only a dead game if you let it be dead.
 
celmive said:
squidyak said:
Mongoose is to blame, not fans or the licensing company. To claim RQ would sell better than D20 is kind of ridiculous, RQ will never ever be the future of gaming. It always has been and always will be a fringe system. I quite frankly don't blame the licensing company for blocking the move. They agreed for Conan to be released using the most successful gaming system to date and would prefer to keep it that way. If sales were faltering, an attempt should have been made to fix it. Perhaps stop producing expensive books that cause you to have expensive prices, adapt to the current economy. Perhaps a cheaper 3rd edition to tide people over until the economy turns around. But a long pause is the touch of death, it always has been and always will be. They had a pretty successful game and decided to abandon it for a less successful system, it's nobody's fault but their own.

Hummm. Your opinion... RQ a fringe system though ? A lot people would disagree. I personally found the suggestion of a Savage version of Conan to be great. Is that a "Fringe" system too ? To be honest d20 has more or less had its day. It was brilliant when current but it has fallen by the wayside. Pathfinder seems to be the only thing keeping d20 going at the mo and I believe Pathfinder Conan could have possibly worked. Moot point though. I would have liked to see RQ Conan and possibly source books could have been dual (or Tri) stated for d20 & RQ (& SW ? )

Conan books expensive ? Mate, there is a licence to pay for ! You don't blame the licencing company ? Well, then it would be your fault the licence is in its current state if you had a vote.

Look at the idea for fan stuff in a previous post here. Put those negative thoughts into positive ones. It's only a dead game if you let it be dead.


I wouldnt call RQ fringe, but it really isnt mainstream outside of the RPG community.
 
Hummm. Your opinion... RQ a fringe system though ? A lot people would disagree. I personally found the suggestion of a Savage version of Conan to be great. Is that a "Fringe" system too ? To be honest d20 has more or less had its day. It was brilliant when current but it has fallen by the wayside. Pathfinder seems to be the only thing keeping d20 going at the mo and I believe Pathfinder Conan could have possibly worked. Moot point though. I would have liked to see RQ Conan and possibly source books could have been dual (or Tri) stated for d20 & RQ (& SW ? )

Yes, RQ is fringe. DND, Storyteller, Non-dnd D20, and even GURPS are more well-known that RQ. Why would a major film/novel franchise like Conan settle for anything but a major game franchise? D20 is still going strong, 4e is a D20 game.

Conan books expensive ? Mate, there is a licence to pay for ! You don't blame the licencing company ? Well, then it would be your fault the licence is in its current state if you had a vote.

Yes, $50 is expensive. In fact it's a ridiculous amount of money for a game book. $30 is plenty and would still turn a profit if they used standard quality paper. I mean they were going to release the whole system leather-bound as the standard, what were they thinking? I'd rather have them not make it leather bound and pass those unnecessary costs to me.

Look at the idea for fan stuff in a previous post here. Put those negative thoughts into positive ones. It's only a dead game if you let it be dead.

No it's a dead game once it ceases to be published. If you think it doesn't matter try to find an Alternity, AD&D, or Star Wars D20 (Not Saga) game. If you are lucky enough to be in a campaign now fine, but if you move it's extremely difficult to find a new campaign. If you don't move, you'll start to see membership in your group dwindle as other people move or don't have time to game and you won't bring in any new blood. Once a game is no longer published it's doomed.
 
Squidyak- Gotta disagree with you on the subject of dead games. Websites like Strike to Stun and Mad Alfred,as well as regularly produced fanzines such as Warpstone kept WFRP alive in the days between the demise of Hogs head and the arrival of WFRP2.
Fraternity of Shadows website is keeping Ravenloft roleplaying in an undead format. They have loads of stuff to download such as semi regular webzine "Quoth the Raven" and a load of contributors. There's been nothing new for Ravenloft since Moses was a boy.
These may be exceptions rather than the rule, but it does prove that a game does not necessarily die or go away quietly because a company decides to stop publishing it.
There are dozens of guys on this forum who have good ideas, all we need is someone to set up and host a site like the ones mentioned above. I, unfortunately, am computer illiterate. :oops:

Also, Scorpion 13-Surely all RPG systems are non mainstream and fringe interests outside of the RPGing community? :wink: :)
 
tarkhan bey said:
Also, Scorpion 13-Surely all RPG systems are non mainstream and fringe interests outside of the RPGing community? :wink: :)

I think what they are saying is that, compared to d20, RQ is a fringe side interest. And I cant see how anyone would think otherwise.

Surely the license holders saw this in terms of numbers..... and RQ simply does not have the numbers d20 does. Thats not a statement on the quality, value, or dedication of fans of either system, but it is a statement of fact.

I suspect highly that the license holders are not gamers, do not game, and could care less about the "system wars". I would be willing to bet that they are simply concerned with the numbers...... and RQ does not bring the numbers that d20 does. If RQ brought more numbers than d20, the shoe would surely be on the other foot.
 
I agree completely DLS but was replying on what was actually written.

By the way, I also am completely neutral in the System Wars as well(at least as far as the retention of the Conan License is concerned).

I know what you are saying about the fact that D20 is a bigger draw in the numbers game. However,Matt mentioned earlier that Mongoose believed that the only way to continue to profit from the Conan Rpg license was to shift it to a new system or multi system it.

I won't be buying another D20 edition from another company. FACT.
Though I might buy a Turan/Hyrkania supplement...... :D
 
squidyak said:
Yes, RQ is fringe. DND, Storyteller, Non-dnd D20, and even GURPS are more well-known that RQ. Why would a major film/novel franchise like Conan settle for anything but a major game franchise? D20 is still going strong, 4e is a D20 game.

RQ is fringe ? What sort of RPG Backwater do you live in ? I have gamed since the 70's and I can tell you it sure is not. I will give you that I put the d20 down incorrectly - I meant 3rd Edn D20 of which Conan is.

squidyak said:
Yes, $50 is expensive. In fact it's a ridiculous amount of money for a game book. $30 is plenty and would still turn a profit if they used standard quality paper. I mean they were going to release the whole system leather-bound as the standard, what were they thinking? I'd rather have them not make it leather bound and pass those unnecessary costs to me.

Okay - I disagree. $50 or £29.95 is not that expensive for a quality book with good quality paper. I would rather have a quality product for an extra few quid and I guess most people would. Also from what was said the Leather bound editions would not cost any extra as Mongoose had been hot on sourcing a supplier.

squidyak said:
No it's a dead game once it ceases to be published. If you think it doesn't matter try to find an Alternity, AD&D, or Star Wars D20 (Not Saga) game. If you are lucky enough to be in a campaign now fine, but if you move it's extremely difficult to find a new campaign. If you don't move, you'll start to see membership in your group dwindle as other people move or don't have time to game and you won't bring in any new blood. Once a game is no longer published it's doomed.

Now you are having a laugh mate... Once a game is no longer published its doomed ??? Jeez ! Warhammer, Runequest, Tunnels & Trolls, Traveller, Ars Magica , Earthdawn , Battletech , Shadowrun... Need I go on ? Many of these were kept going by Fans & Fan material inbetween editions.

Again - It is just my take on it but I bet many would concur
 
tarkhan bey said:
By the way, I also am completely neutral in the System Wars as well(at least as far as the retention of the Conan License is concerned).

Me too - A GM/DM with any knowledge can soon convert from one system to another.

I just want to see well written, quality products.
 
Well as for the D20/RQ debate. I think it is easy to say their is fewer RQ fans and a lot less people aware of it.

But most of the RQ fans come to Mongoose who for the moment has Conan so not sure the drop would be much or at all. Have my doubts it would have gotten more popular though.

For the record cause I was curious i asked my gaming group the 7 others and the responces I got was.
2 had no clue what RQ was and had never heard of it.
1 had heard of it but knew nothing about it
2 had heard of it and knew what it was but thought RQ died long ago.
1 had heard of it and knew it was still being made.

Grant none of them are go on the internet type gamers but then i would say those of us that hit forums only represent about 10% of the gamers anyways and we tend to be much better informed than the avg gamer.
 
Again I wish to stated that I enjoyed the d20 system. But the problem I had with Mongoose Conan were either the low quality or the WTF were they thinking supplements. Cimmeria and Khitai??????? Really, when you have people hammering for Turan! Or even a Black Kingdoms source book. How about a Zamora book (to supplement the stuff from Shadizar, which is not for sale).

And the 2nd edition was severly lacking. The Player's Guide was garbage and the Secrets of Skelos was good but some of the styles of magic were definatly not in the theme of REH. Actually I think that I am one of few people that loved the F series (Fiercest, Finest, Fallen). And why not more adventures/modules??? I would have bought any new adventure!!! That is one class of Conan products that I have bought in its entirety!

And alot of the items are gone. I was still planing on purchasing Faiths & Fervor but between Conan and Traveller and bills I had just put it on the back burner.

IMHO, Conan was/is the best S&S game I have ever found. After purchasing this I compleatly dropped D&D (sold all books). Conan is the "bee's knees" :lol: :lol: !!!!!!!!!
 
cbrunish said:
Again I wish to stated that I enjoyed the d20 system. But the problem I had with Mongoose Conan were either the low quality or the WTF were they thinking supplements. Cimmeria and Khitai??????? Really, when you have people hammering for Turan! Or even a Black Kingdoms source book. How about a Zamora book (to supplement the stuff from Shadizar, which is not for sale).

And the 2nd edition was severly lacking. The Player's Guide was garbage and the Secrets of Skelos was good but some of the styles of magic were definatly not in the theme of REH. Actually I think that I am one of few people that loved the F series (Fiercest, Finest, Fallen). And why not more adventures/modules??? I would have bought any new adventure!!! That is one class of Conan products that I have bought in its entirety!

And alot of the items are gone. I was still planing on purchasing Faiths & Fervor but between Conan and Traveller and bills I had just put it on the back burner.

IMHO, Conan was/is the best S&S game I have ever found. After purchasing this I compleatly dropped D&D (sold all books). Conan is the "bee's knees" :lol: :lol: !!!!!!!!!

I have to disagree about 2nd edition. I liked it, and though some of the spells in Skelos were...somewhat out of step with REH style stuff, honestly, it wasnt THAT out of place. Really.

And I will agree about Cimmeria. Really, there isnt any reason to go to Cimmeria in a game, that I can think of. There's no loot, no hidden ruins, and lots of barbarians who sit there all moody until they decide to kill you.

Khitai on the other hand is a WAY different story. Id have to have the actual book to give a yea or nea on it, Im hoping to get it at xmas, it exactly what the setting is all about. Jungles, exotic cultures, weird monsters, sorcery, strange gods....whats not to love? Turan never struck me as all THAT exotic. Not like Khitai or Vendya.
 
squidyak said:
Mongoose is to blame, not fans or the licensing company. To claim RQ would sell better than D20 is kind of ridiculous, RQ will never ever be the future of gaming. It always has been and always will be a fringe system. I quite frankly don't blame the licensing company for blocking the move. They agreed for Conan to be released using the most successful gaming system to date and would prefer to keep it that way. If sales were faltering, an attempt should have been made to fix it. Perhaps stop producing expensive books that cause you to have expensive prices, adapt to the current economy. Perhaps a cheaper 3rd edition to tide people over until the economy turns around. But a long pause is the touch of death, it always has been and always will be. They had a pretty successful game and decided to abandon it for a less successful system, it's nobody's fault but their own.

I am very sorry, but just about everything you write here is wrong. Allow me to explain;

1. D20-based products, in 2009, sold in pitifully small quantities. Most sold just a few hundred copies, and while Conan had not sunk so low, we could see it was heading that way. People are just not buying 20 any more.

2. We never claimed RQ was the future of gaming. Or Traveller, for that matter. However, Traveller far outpaces D20-based products, and we have every reason to believe we can repeat this with the new release of RQ.

3. The licence holder did not initially block the move to RQ. They agreed to it. They blocked it 7 days before we were due to start writing the first Conan book.

4. I am not sure you can say Conan books are expensive. Over 400 pages for less than $40 (not sure were you get the idea it costs $50 in a later post)?

5. The economy has not touched RPGs. If anything, it has boosted them (see comments tabout this in the recent State of the Mongoose).

6. Conan, relative to all our other game lines, was sliding. Clearly, something had to be done. A new supplement, regardless of content, would not have reversed this.

7. We did not abandon Conan - we took it as far as any company reasonably could. We had to come to terms with the fact that everyone who wanted a D20-based Conan already had it. There were no new worlds to conquer on that front.

What Conan needs is a new system. If another company ends up with this licence, it will be with a new system. Probably a proprietary one, which would be ironic.

As for the other poster who asked, we would not be averse to putting another bid in for Conan. However, I can't see that we would be willing to pay over the odds because of the presence of a film of unknown qualities (having seen what certain films and new releases did for the latter stages of B5). If the licence holders believe they can find another company who can a) pay a greater advance (possible) and b) sell more RPG books overall (really not too many of those around, even less who commonly take on licences - I can think of _one_ who might have a stab at it), then I sincerely wish them the best of luck.
 
That was me that asked if you was going to try and get conan back. I know their are issues with it, I was just wondering if you was even going to make a bid for it. I could see how getting burned might turn you off to the idea. Which is what promoted me to ask in the first place if you was even going to try.

By your above post I assume it means you will basically made the same offer that you made last time when you got it.
 
You know, Sprange, just about the only thing I could think of that could make me play 4ed would be a Sword And Sorcery/Weird Fantasy type setting. You just dont see that sort of thing from WOTC, which is chock full of the Tolkien ripoff stuff.

I know we probably wouldnt get any more Conan, and I appreciate your being forthright on this, but maybe you dont have to abandon the whole genre with the loss of Conan. Youve proved you can do it well with Conan, maybe another more generic line could be an option?

Just saying.
 
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