Spacequest: Runequest vs D20 vs GURPS vs D6 in space

Utgardloki

Mongoose
I'm looking for a good game system for science fiction RPGs. In my Moonquest thread, I am assuming that Runequest will be my choice. This thread is to consider the pros and cons of using Runequest in Space.

As usual, I think I'd choose D20 for the most fantastic space opera games, because the class system clearly defines the heroes roles, and the hit points allow heroes to survive amazing odds.

I was considering Call of Cthulhu for the more realistic Moonquest idea. I'm not sure how close the new incarnation of Runequest is to the current incarnation of CoC.

D6 Space seems a little too vague and "squishy" for my tastes, although it seems like I'll be able to use it for Battlestar Galactica by printing a setting guide that limits choices and nails down things that I like defined.

I've had experience with both D20 and D6 Star Wars. The D6 seemed more like hard science fiction, but it also seemed to lock my character in moreso than the D20 rules did. In both cases I played a Jawa. In D6 he was a Jawa engineer who spent his time hanging around electronics shops, modifying the spaceship, and menacing droids. In D20 he was a Jawa scoundrel who was a master of "Jawa-Fu". I could probably have talked the GM into letting him multiclass into a class from Deadlands D20, and become a scoundrel/mad scientist who steals weapons and then "improves them" the way Tim Allen's character improves things on _Home Improvement_.

So how well will Runequest fit in among all these other choices?
 
I honestly think that Basic Roleplaying (and hopefully MRQ) could fit the bill for any genre. For my money it's the most versatile system out there, precisely because it doesn't define characters and settings in the rules. You can be whatever, wherever you want.

I've been thinking of converting Star Wars to BRP for awhile now. I think the fast task resolution better reflects to cinematic feel of the movies.
 
Chardros The Reaper said:
I honestly think that Basic Roleplaying (and hopefully MRQ) could fit the bill for any genre. For my money it's the most versatile system out there, precisely because it doesn't define characters and settings in the rules. You can be whatever, wherever you want.

I've been thinking of converting Star Wars to BRP for awhile now. I think the fast task resolution better reflects to cinematic feel of the movies.

Absolutely agree. The CoC system is good for adventures in 1920 and 1990. it can also be converted in a Scifi setting without problems. You have to adjust weapons and armor tables and introduce some new skills. I did that all the time in the last years.

Converting MRQ should last a little bit longer, but then you have the new rule system. (hitlocations, opposed rolls etc.) Maybe its worth to wait some weeks.

Gurps?
I like GURPs too, but the full system is VERY rule heavy. Maybe you like to take a look at Gurps LITE which is a free PDF download. What you should check out if you like to make a SF game is Gurps ULTRATECH and Gurps BIOTECH. Both are excellent books for describing future technologies.

d20? forget it (alone to think about this - shudder) But if you want to compare there is a T20 pdf (traveller with d20 rules) out there. I think its even free.
 
If you can get it. The Ringworld RPG, done years past by Chaosium, is really, REALLY good. The rumour is that Mr Niven himself, when throwing open his 'known space' world open to a select few authors, gave each a copy of the rpg & said "This is everything you'd ever need to know about known space." We used it pretty liberally for sci-fi gaming for some time. Dang hard to get a copy, I ain't seen one for several years, and they cost $$.

DD
 
Enpeze said:
d20? forget it (alone to think about this - shudder) But if you want to compare there is a T20 pdf (traveller with d20 rules) out there. I think its even free.

B5 works well, and proves that when done properly, by shaving the corners off your square peg to make it fit the round hole, d20 can be made to fit pretty well.
A lot of other sci-fi d20 conversions just prove that slapping a d20 logo on something for the sake of it, hammering the square peg in with force, then taping the broken parts together... just makes a mess.

It's all in the implementation. d20 has been used badly so many times that people automatically blame d20 in general, rather than the specific implementations (and there's so many nasty versions out there that you can't really blame people for generalising). The best way to approach a d20 conversion is surgically - take a scalpel to the parts that don't fit the genre, and very carefully graft in the replacements. The worst (and most common) way is to pile on rules for "exceptions" you need in your version, and end up with a very ugly, very rules-heavy, very slow and unwieldy monstrosity. In other words: d20 can be done but you really have to know what you're doing.

Having said that, being familiar with CoC and BRP (and now reading up on MRQ) I'd have to say it's probably a lot easier to make those conversions without messing up as badly as you might if you tried d20. The class/level system doesn't "get in the way" when you're working out how to do it.
 
mthomason said:
In other words: d20 can be done but you really have to know what you're doing.

While you can cut the HPs easily and just allow CON as max HP there are many other problems arising to grant a realistic scifi game. For example what do you do with elements like "levels", "character classes" "XP", "feats"? Cutting them out? You have to redesign the whole d20 system if you want to fullfill Utgardlokis prerequisite on "realism".

Why bothering with it, if the CoC rules have already everything you need? (except the rules for some Scifi-equipment)
 
You could try True 20 or Mutants & Masterminds variants. Both are pretty damned good, even if they are D20 variants. I've used T20 a bit and it is workable. Currently, I use an L5R/7thSeas variant for Star Wars, though I really like the T20 SW fan pdf out there. For hard SF, BRP is a good, unforgiving system.

DD
 
I see no problem in using RQ for a science fiction setting. In fact I plan to do so myself (writing on a dark science fantasy setting at the moment for RQ).

You will have to do the following according to my current estimate;
- Change some skills to handle a higher level of technology. Some skills will be redundant and some new skills will be added.
- Make equipments suitable for the technology, and make new rules where RQ does not have any to handle the equipment.
- Professions
- Rules for vehicles, on land, air, sea, and space. Including vehicle combat.

And that is beyond creating the setting.
 
One thing that Runequest and CoC have is a Power attribute. I am not sure that I want powers cluttering up my hard science fiction environment, which leaves open the question of what to do with this attribute.

One thought is to apply my desire for irony and suggest that maybe there might or might not be real "psychic" powers, but in 200 years nobody has yet succeeded in demonstrating proof of these abilities. Obviously, obvious powers like leaping 30 feet, landing on a flagpole, and then using your perfect balance to slice through the steel wall with your light saber will not work. Instead, you might be able to "push your luck" in various ways.

I am thinking of dividing Power into three attributes: Faith, Logic, and Flow. Faith is important for using Power, because it represents belief that this actually works. Logic inhibits use of Power, but it also increases resistance to power effects from others. And Flow is the intuitive understanding of the universe and how to best move through it.

I'll have to see the book to see if my ideas can be reasonably implemented or not.
 
My thought is that while, perhaps, most people would have equal amounts of each attribute, in reality, Faith and Logic cancel out, and so only those with unequal amounts have any real use of this attribute.

The inbalance between Faith and Logic would be what gives Power its power. It could also bring up some interesting theological implications.
 
Utgardloki said:
One thing that Runequest and CoC have is a Power attribute. I am not sure that I want powers cluttering up my hard science fiction environment, which leaves open the question of what to do with this attribute.

One thought is to apply my desire for irony and suggest that maybe there might or might not be real "psychic" powers, but in 200 years nobody has yet succeeded in demonstrating proof of these abilities. Obviously, obvious powers like leaping 30 feet, landing on a flagpole, and then using your perfect balance to slice through the steel wall with your light saber will not work. Instead, you might be able to "push your luck" in various ways.

I am thinking of dividing Power into three attributes: Faith, Logic, and Flow. Faith is important for using Power, because it represents belief that this actually works. Logic inhibits use of Power, but it also increases resistance to power effects from others. And Flow is the intuitive understanding of the universe and how to best move through it.

I'll have to see the book to see if my ideas can be reasonably implemented or not.


Pow? no prob. Use it as other BRP games as "Luck Roll" (POWx5) or as base for Sanity. In CoC its a very important attribute.

Example:
player 1 asks: Is there a nearby barrel I can cower behind to avoid those laser fire?
GM answers (as always he dont have prepared everything): make a luck roll.
player 2 makes a POWx5 luck roll and dont succeed. 1 turn later he is dead meat.

And if you like to introduce some psionics well...

POW belongs the BRP like STR. I would not cut it out.
 
Durand Durand said:
If you can get it. The Ringworld RPG, done years past by Chaosium, is really, REALLY good. The rumour is that Mr Niven himself, when throwing open his 'known space' world open to a select few authors, gave each a copy of the rpg & said "This is everything you'd ever need to know about known space." We used it pretty liberally for sci-fi gaming for some time. Dang hard to get a copy, I ain't seen one for several years, and they cost $$.

DD

Just seconding this opinion - its an outstanding game with very few changes from the RQ formula:

substitute EDU(cation) for POW, MAS(s) for SIZ, Continuous thread of Impulses instead of Strike Ranks broken into rounds, and of course different skills and equipment. There's also an unusual mechanic for handling long, complicated science/engineering tasks breaking them into steps and identifying the skills needed. Don't know how it plays but seemed very cool at the time.
 
Archer said:
I see no problem in using RQ for a science fiction setting. In fact I plan to do so myself (writing on a dark science fantasy setting at the moment for RQ).

You will have to do the following according to my current estimate;
- Change some skills to handle a higher level of technology. Some skills will be redundant and some new skills will be added.
- Make equipments suitable for the technology, and make new rules where RQ does not have any to handle the equipment.
- Professions
- Rules for vehicles, on land, air, sea, and space. Including vehicle combat.
Out of curiosity, does the open licence allow someone to publish a rules-only book that adapts MQ to a space environment, or is reserved for Mongoose?
 
Urox said:
Out of curiosity, does the open licence allow someone to publish a rules-only book that adapts MQ to a space environment, or is reserved for Mongoose?

From what I understand (I haven't seen a copy yet), the open licence will allow you to do pretty much anything you like be it supplement or scenario. The restrictions are most likely on use of trademarks, use of the Glorantha setting (not included in the licence at all so you can't use it), and possibly character creation (if Mongoose want people to have to have the main rulebook before using any supplements - although in the past they haven't used this on their other OGL products so quite possibly you'll be free to include that too).

The licence will be available on the Mongoose website shortly after the game's release (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/news/news_item.php?pkid_news=113) at which point we'll all know what is and isn't possible with it :)

As they've stated that third-party publishers will be able to write "supplements and settings", I'm 100% certain you'll be able to do what you've asked within the terms of the licence as long as you require players to have access to the main rulebook for certain things (if you want to make it standalone then we'll have to wait and see ;) )
 
Urox said:
Archer said:
I see no problem in using RQ for a science fiction setting. In fact I plan to do so myself (writing on a dark science fantasy setting at the moment for RQ).

You will have to do the following according to my current estimate;
- Change some skills to handle a higher level of technology. Some skills will be redundant and some new skills will be added.
- Make equipments suitable for the technology, and make new rules where RQ does not have any to handle the equipment.
- Professions
- Rules for vehicles, on land, air, sea, and space. Including vehicle combat.
Out of curiosity, does the open licence allow someone to publish a rules-only book that adapts MQ to a space environment, or is reserved for Mongoose?

There are certain restrictions in place if you want to use the RQ logo, and almost none of all you want to use are the rules.

One of the ideas we're playing with in-house is an RQ conversion of our Pulp game Forbidden Kingdoms. It'll almost certainly happen, but I'm waiting on the magic rules in the Companion to make a final desicion.

Hyrum.
 
It would be nice to see some rules reguarding uing the OGL from Mongoose. IMO the lack of rules/ standards is what's killing D20. So many companies, so few decent products.
 
Mac V said:
It would be nice to see some rules reguarding uing the OGL from Mongoose. IMO the lack of rules/ standards is what's killing D20. So many companies, so few decent products.

That's the beauty/curse of the d20 OGL. The way the license is structured, WotC really can't police it, and they don't have the manpower to do it even if they wanted to.

Even more, WotC really can't do anything if you go OGL and don't use the d20 logo at all.

Hyrum.
 
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