Solider vs. Barbarian

[Evil_Trevor]

In many, if not most, ancient cultures (where both REH and we) look for inspiration in times of war anyone could be called upon to fight, this role is more often than not a requirment for men, in the English city of Sherwsbury on the welsh border it was a requirment (until this century) that every man practice with the longbow at least once a week and the law permitting people to shoot welshmen found in the city after dark was only removed this century.

The place of Women in this is type of society is not very well understood but there is ample evidence for many different roles for women in war (The pope banned Women from fighting in the third crusade for example) In a lot of societys the role of Women in 'Home defence' (from Ancient times to as recently as the americain civil war) is well documented I recall a medieval battle where a town attacked and besidged by moors is on the point of surender as most of its male populace having fought many battles are wounded and not so numours are in no position to fight. The ladies then don thier husbands armour and ride out putting the moorish army to flight.... I believe they got there own Knightly order.

All these roles qualify for some form of 'solider' classification for trained martial abilities. Not all soliders are in an official army (think of the 'army' of rebels such as the sparticus lead slave rebellion). It also covers gaurds and Watchmen. The name of the class of those who are trained to do something martial/millitary when need arises what difference does it make to use the word 'solider' or 'fighter' except that the only historical use for the term 'fighter' would be for a gladiator, pub brawler or as a descriptive term for an individual.

 

[are]

In many, if not most, ancient cultures (where both REH and we) look for inspiration in times of war anyone could be called upon to fight, this role is more often than not a requirment for men, in the English city of Sherwsbury on the welsh border it was a requirment (until this century) that every man practice with the longbow at least once a week and the law permitting people to shoot welshmen found in the city after dark was only removed this century.

Update: We are now in the 21. century.

 

[Trodax]

In many, if not most, ancient cultures (where both REH and we) look for inspiration in times of war anyone could be called upon to fight, this role is more often than not a requirment for men, in the English city of Sherwsbury on the welsh border it was a requirment (until this century) that every man practice with the longbow at least once a week and the law permitting people to shoot welshmen found in the city after dark was only removed this century.

Update: We are now in the 21. century.

:lol:
It must have sucked to be Welsh in the 80's.

 

[Thoth Aw C'mon]

This is probably an ancient topic, and has probably resurfaced quite a few times in one guise or another.

If so I apologize. (I've searched the forum, but haven't found anything sufficient.)

Since I've only just recently become acquainted with the Conan RPG, I'm curious what other peoples experience with these two classes have been,

At a rough glance, it seems as if the solider is at a sore disadvantage against the barbarian.

In fact, I'm quite curious why the soldier class is designed as it is.

All of the other classes seem to have gotten alot of thought and attention put into them, where as the solider is pretty much a straight port of the fighter with "Formation Combat" added onto it, which I don't really see as all that significant, not to a single player character anyway.

I'm going to be game mastering, and I quite like the idea of the solider class, but it seems to need a bit of work. So I'll probably tweak it a bit.


I'm curious if others have felt this way and have done any tweaking to the Solider class and how it worked for you.



The soldier class seems pretty outclassed by the barbarian. Which I surmise was done as this game is based on Conan (which is a bit silly to model a class of off a single supremely extrordinary character)


Some points

• 
  The soldier loses out heavily on inititative.
  
  Has the greatest amount of "bonus feats" but seeing as other classes get a special ability, if not 2 (except the noble) nearly every single level it doesn't actually seem they gain all that much. The only thing gained here is freedom of choice. This is compounded by the fact that in no way what so ever does a bonus feat, or even three, come close to equalling the power of "Versatility" or triple threat ranges.
  
  Has the smallest number of skills. I don't think getting bonus feats is an excuse for this, as I mentioned, the other classes gain abilities every level, their skills increases aren't hindered by this.

Curious what others think,

If you feel I'm way off base, please explain why as it would be helpful.

The main difference between soldiers and barbarians, I've found, is that when the population as whole switches to Capital One, the barbarians then have to give up raiding and pillaging, and get odd jobs- you know, things like serving ice cream with their dirty, bare hands (while wiping their noses). Or riding the lead car in the childrens choo choo at the local carnival. Or being a flight attendant (complete with the obligatory hanging morning star that bashes passengers in the face whenever they walk down the aisle). They are forced to do this, as a rule, instead of running around pillaging and screaming "Whats in yer wallet?" Haw haw!

Warhammer fantasy Roleplaying should take this up as part of their career-centered game...The GM could threaten any misbehaving players with barbarian or outlaw heavy parties to shape up or the whole population of the Empire will make the switch to Capital One. That'll shape 'em up. Imagine the career exists available for ice cream server. Haw haw!!!

 

[Tim]

Soldier is a great class, by itself, and though it starts weaker than the barbarian it reves up as you go. The big advantage is build the fighter you want. The thing about soldier is that you must plan you feat development well in advance, and stay focused. Hopping around grasping at every kewl new shiny will create a prety poor character. We have an archer with a Bossonian Long bow who is as deadly as they come, and when jumped in close, no prob hes got that covered as well. The lack of skill points is unfortunate, and the one thing I would like to see changed. Also, if your group has multiple soldiers the formation styles are great.

The other strength of solder is that its THE chice for multi-classing. We have three characters who have take a few levels of soldier and the effect on their characters compared to staying in thier man class only is huge. Never underestimate the power of more feats.

 

[malkiedawn]

Conan is set in the 21st century? :shock:

please tell me more

 

[Yogah of Yag]

Conan is set in the 21st century? :shock:

please tell me more

Oh, boy. :roll:
Conan is set in a "mythical Ancient Time" circa 10,000 years ago, or 10,000 BCE, roundabouts, between the destruction of the isle Atlantis and the appearance of various recognizable, early-historical peoples. Atlantis existed several thousands of years before Conan's time (=Hyborian Age)

 

[Mark Dunder]

Guards and Watchmen are soldiers, unless they are hired Mercenaries. Usually, the soldier got paid by the local government, and not a lot. This might account for all the Mercenaries, they usually got paid more. The Militiamen were probably closer to what you think of as your Soldier class. Many of these guys (in the past), were volunteer soldiers and were not always paid. But they felt they had a duty, and so trained as soldiers whenever they could. They were soldiers only when training and became full time soldiers when called upon by their country. Otherwise, they went back to farming or making a living as best they could. This is not to say they didn't use their skills to do a little pilfering on the side, or even turn to taking tolls along roads when the economy got slow.
I'm just curious; what are your Soldiers doing in your campaign? Do they go about fighting wars for their country (or other countries), or are they actually looting forgotten castles? Are they hiring on as guards for a caravan? Just wondering if you are looking for a more noble description or just a different description, than that of Fighter? You seemed derisive of the Fighter being a common sort of fellow. I think of the soldier as a "career" choice and not necessarily as a "class." But this is your game, your classifications, and a Soldier can be anything you want it to be, kind of a Knight in sheeps clothing.

 

[Evil_Trevor]

I'm just curious; what are your Soldiers doing in your campaign? Do they go about fighting wars for their country (or other countries), or are they actually looting forgotten castles? Are they hiring on as guards for a caravan? Just wondering if you are looking for a more noble description or just a different description, than that of Fighter? You seemed derisive of the Fighter being a common sort of fellow. I think of the soldier as a "career" choice and not necessarily as a "class." But this is your game, your classifications, and a Soldier can be anything you want it to be, kind of a Knight in sheeps clothing.

I am deriding the use of the term 'fighter' as used in some RPGs as I prefer other terms, most D.&D. style fighters take a kit to explain thier 'fighterness'. I look to historical source material to fill out the background and colour of these characters.

I found the soldier vs barbie example earlier in this thread interesting as the result could have changed with one die roll if the barbie got a crit in round one, or the soldier missed once.... Otherwise I have no interest in whether class A is tougher than Class B since it does not tell anything to me as a gm other than the player wants a skirmish like die-rolling game with minimum roleplay.

Some of the games I run contain extended skirmishes with minatures and others don't. In my Game which began yesterday with 7 players (3 female if that matters) There are currently no p.c. soldiers (they will be getting a force of soliders in two weeks) I am researching how to roleplay these, I know how to roll the dice and can read the rule book, which when it suits me I ignore. The first event of the next session is an attack by a small band of Kushite mercs lead by a Styigian sorcerer who might die, but will not be captured whatever the dice rolls say.

This thread has the potiental to explore many interesting areas like the differences encountered in citys and in the wilderness by people with different backgrounds. Examining the reactions and expectations of NPC's from commoner to King.

In the end the question "Should I play a Soldier or a Barbarian" comes down to much more than "Who would win a fight" I would hope.

 

[Mark Dunder]

I agree, the role-play is the thing. Sygian sorcerers often had one loyal (albeit, usually dumb, tongue cut out or something like that) slave, that lurked in the background, and would come to snatch his master away. Just a thought, but that would give you some insurance. The slave might even have some magic to use.