Smoke rules

[Paladin]

Is it just me or is the use of smoke a bit pointless based on the advanced rules? You have to use 2 Ready actions to be invisible against very few enemy units for only 1 turn. Only armorered units can deploy smoke, and the vast majority of armored units can also see through smoke. Since you are primarily only defeating infantry/small arms fire which most armored vees are immune to, is there any reason to use Smoke?

Surely a better system could have been developed...

 

[The Old Soldier]

Sound like another of about a half a dozen rules to adjust. Hey we will have to add that to the future "man Law" section of the evo forum!

 

[Ben2]

The problem is that in real life most armour can see through smoke using IR sights/thermal imaging etc. It is really only an obstacle for very low tech enemies, ie foot soldiers with no equipment that can penetrate it. Even so you stil get smoke launchers on vehicles in real life.

 

[tiepilot1138]

I don't have the rules in front of me (because the book STILL has not arrived :evil: ), but why would it take 2 ready actions to pop smoke? It's not like you have to aim it or anything! Especially if it's ineffective against almost anything that can actually harm a tank.

 

[hegemon]

I've gone through the rule book and a few of the cards and havn't seen anywhere that says tanks in game can see through smoke, if you can point me in the direction it would help greatly.


ok disregard that i found it, oops

 

[voncougar]

I don't know exactly how smoke works, because I haven't seen the rulebook yet, but could it be something that you lay down in front of OTHER units?

Like, say you move all of your infantry or something, and then use your tank to pop some smoke around an important group of soldiers, who will be invisible to the enemy for their turn...and then on your next turn you move the soldiers and out the pop from behind the smoke?

I dunno, I'll have to read the rules before figuring it out...but that could work, no?

 

[Paladin]

1 Ready Action should be more than enough to deploy smoke. With these rules Smoke denies the ability to ever move through it.

It also denies any infantry initiated smoke screens.

It also has zero lingering factor, which is fine for simplicity, IF you only require 1 Ready action to deploy it so it lasts long enough to actually use it. As is it disperses before you can even "move" through it.

 

[lastbesthope]

1 Ready Action should be more than enough to deploy smoke. With these rules Smoke denies the ability to ever move through it.

No it doesn't, it prevents any unit that can deploy smoke from moving through it, other units have no such limitation.

It also denies any infantry initiated smoke screens.

It doesn't prevent a future infantry unit having a smoke launcher rule.

LBH

 

[Paladin]

1 Ready Action should be more than enough to deploy smoke. With these rules Smoke denies the ability to ever move through it.

No it doesn't, it prevents any unit that can deploy smoke from moving through it, other units have no such limitation.

Thanks for parsing my words to say what I meant.

It also denies any infantry initiated smoke screens.

It doesn't prevent a future infantry unit having a smoke launcher rule.

Nope, but it sure makes a lot of existing units look silly when new stuff has abilities the existing units should have had. I was REALLY hoping the Ready Actions or Faction sections would cover infantry smoke screens.

 

[Paladin]

Merkava lays a smoke screen in mere seconds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNXL8PjYQ6E

Challenger smoke trail on the run:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XYvmTnIFlU

 

[Se Chris]

The reason smoke currently takes two Ready actions to lay is because if it didn't your armoured vehicles could roll forward with a Move/Smoke each turn and make themselves - and any units hanging close to them or following them down a street - completely invulnerable to infantry and light vehicle attacks. Never mind that the Armoured vehicle dropping smoke can cheerfully shoot out without hassle. It might not be exactly realistic, but it's sort of necessary for game balance.

Still, if that's not to your liking, here are some suggestions for house rules (in no way official, since I just made them up just now):

1. Dropping smoke takes only a single Ready action, but provides Cover or Obscurement rather than blocking LOS.

2. Dropping smoke takes only a single Ready action and blocks LOS, but smoke launchers are much much more expensive. +100 points or something.

3. If you're willing to put up with added complexity, then you could say that each Ready action you take increases cover by one level - from Obscurement to Cover to blocked LOS. Where different vehicles use smoke all at once, where the areas overlap the cover level stacks.

 

[emperorpenguin]

3. If you're willing to put up with added complexity, then you could say that each Ready action you take increases cover by one level - from Obscurement to Cover to blocked LOS. Where different vehicles use smoke all at once, where the areas overlap the cover level stacks.

that's a good idea

 

[gbierl]

How about this?

1. Deploying smoke requires 1 Ready action and blocks line of sight.
2. Vehicles may deploy smoke a total of three time per game.
3. Infantry squads may deploy smoke once per game.

I think this might make smoke a factor in the game while not increasing complexity overly much. Then again, this is off the top of my head and hasn't seen a second of playtesting.

Just my $0.02.

 

[rvrratt]

Good idea Greg!

I think deploying smoke forces you to use one of those command actions. Thats not a bad thing. I think we need a few more games under our belt with the smoke rules before we go adjusting them. I was scratching my head about the 2 ready actions along with Greg in our game last week but Mongoose Chris has a good point. We don't want smoke to be powerful or the less technological armies ie MEA will have a hard time!

 

[gbierl]

My biggest beef with the smoke rules as they are now is the exclusion of the infantry. Ask any modern day soldier if smoke grenades are a good idea and I think you'll see what I mean. How any times have we seen video from Iraq showing marines using smoke to obscure LOS while dashing fro one piece of cover to another?

 

[emperorpenguin]

My biggest beef with the smoke rules as they are now is the exclusion of the infantry. Ask any modern day soldier if smoke grenades are a good idea and I think you'll see what I mean. How any times have we seen video from Iraq showing marines using smoke to obscure LOS while dashing fro one piece of cover to another?

QFT

 

[gbierl]

Uhhhhhhh.......

QFT?

Educate me please.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Uhhhhhhh.......

QFT?

Educate me please.

Quoted For Truth

 

[Paladin]

The reason smoke currently takes two Ready actions to lay is because if it didn't your armoured vehicles could roll forward with a Move/Smoke each turn and make themselves - and any units hanging close to them or following them down a street - completely invulnerable to infantry and light vehicle attacks. Never mind that the Armoured vehicle dropping smoke can cheerfully shoot out without hassle.

You mean the way they really do it....

Still, if that's not to your liking, here are some suggestions for house rules (in no way official, since I just made them up just now):

1. Dropping smoke takes only a single Ready action, but provides Cover or Obscurement rather than blocking LOS.

That was the method I had already intended to use.

 

[rvrratt]

Like the infantry smoke rule Greg! The squads already come with frags, why not smoke too? Perhaps at a 5 point cost per man. I see us typing up some house rules! Still, let's play it by mongoose rules this week.