Simple fighter mod - no new redesigns, systems etc

[Farseer]

Ok, I still am a big fan of AF weapons firing at fighters first.

Its simple, and realisitic. Only AF weapons in range actually firing at fighters go first, even if from another ship, allowing for some interesting formations and combos of ships. If you are worried about fighters munching ships without AF, then keep a ship with AF in support range of those ships.

If you are worried about fighters being shot at, then dont go after ships with AF! Thats why they have AF in the first place, no? Think about it. Its like telling modern fighter pilots to strafe a target surrounded by AA guns, Surface to air missle banks, electronic warfare towers and such. Think as a commander, would you send them in? Would they want to go?

OR

if AF weapons are firing first, let fighters still get a dodge roll. This way you "thin the herd" per say and still represent skill of the pilots and the AF doing its job as not every fighter would be killed in an attack run. This would also allow fighters to get an attack run, then be taken out by main guns if the ship so chooses, hence the decision of all ship captains, what is the worse threat? And then allowing fighters to do what they are intended to do to capital ships, harass/occupythe resouces of unwounded ones and hunt and slay the crippled ones.



No new ship redesigns, no new systems, just a simple mod of an existing rule/weapon in the basic rules. It just does not get much simpler, adds some balance, and doesn't nerf the game itself.

Discuss

 

[JayRaider]

I agree totally with you on the issue that anti-fighter weapons should be able to fire first at fighters ( for the reasons u have outlined above).

The current rule that fighters fire first even against ships with anti-fighter weapons feels wrong.

I like your idea of anti-fighters weapons first, then fighters then capital ships.
How about this: any fighter that is hit by AF weapons suffers a +1 modifier to its dodge score in resolving the hit?

So the changes to the current rules would be: AF weapons fire first against figthers.
AF weapons no longer ignore Dodge. But modify it by +1. ( Maybe +2?)

 

[Alexb83]

Why has noone else picked up on simultaneous fire? Fighters fire at their targets, their targets (if possible) fire back, and then the damage is resolved after. The only book-keeping required is to remember which weapons the ship has fired at the fighters... since you have to remember every turn which weapons you have and haven't fired anyways, it's not additional book-keeping in any sense.

 

[JayRaider]

Nice idea Alex,

 

[Alexb83]

I've mentioned at least twice previously on other fighter-centric threads

 

[Alexb83]

So, it simply becomes: Fighters still 'fire first' - i.e., before ships in initiative sequence. The winner of initiative still fires all their fighters first, and so on.

But. Wherever the fighters are firing on a ship capable of returning fire with its own weapons, firing is resolved simultaneously with that of the fighters attacking.

This way, both the fighters and the defending ships get their full dice to attack/defend before any damage might knock them out. I think it's far more fair than any before/after arrangement.

 

[noobdelux]

what abaout trating the whole game simultaneous, with everything getting resolved in the end turn

 

[katadder]

an idea i put in othe posts is the defense network that space stations have. this way you only get 1AD against each fighter which is more chance of survival and limited number of fighters to attack. it could fire before fighters but their suvivability goes up compared to standard anti fighter weapons. then the fighters can fire. then the ships can fire all the rest of their weapons including any other anti-fighter weapons they have. this idea would give people a limited defense against fighters before the fighters actually fire.

 

[Jhary]

strange every one is afraid that a fighter shoot first.

Hey before the fighters is near enoutgh for that you have one round time to catch him the most AF weapon fire more then 4 inch what is more the the 2 inch range what the most fighter weapon system have.

if you decid "go for the big one and ignor the fighters until they are to close " its youre own fault.

 

[Goldritter]

I´m with Jhary.
The Fighters fire first rule is nice and makes fighter worth taking.
And like Jhary has written, you can attack fighters with your "not AF" Weapons too.

My fighters where always killed by Centauri Twin-Arrays and they have no AF.
The range of 5"+ can be raly devastating for fighters.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

Just to keep you posted. . .

The rules changes in Armageddon were intended to address game balance in a quick and easy way that did not impact the entire system.

We are currently looking at a mechanic that gives ships an Anti-Fighter trait, which basically allows reaction fire against any nasty little ship that comes too close. Conversely, some fighter weapons (such as the missile racks on Thunderbolts) are intended to be used beyond the range of Anti-Fighter weapons. Will let you know how it goes. . .

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

OK, understand the current rules may change with the next edition.

The current situation seams about right to me. Fighters come in close, having lost a few to long range fire along the way, get one volley of fire at full effect, then get hit by the weapons of the big ship, and probably get wiped out if the ship has decent anti fighter weapons.

This seams perfectly fine to me. Fighters are attrition units when used against ships, send them in to do their damage, pay off their widows later!

Doesn't need fixing, works well enough for me.

 

[Chernobyl]

I agree that it 'works' but it doesn't 'feel right'

looking foreward to more.

Chern

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

Not sure what doesn't feel right chern?

The fighters can get in close enough to loose their weapons before the anti fighter weapons blow them away. it's going to be pretty rare that the fighters actually do sufficient damage to kill the ship, and if they do there's likely to be dozens of them.

 

[Alexb83]

I swarmed a G'quan with 9 nials the other day to great effect. Of course I was lucky that he never even had a chance to get his energy mines pointed towards my carrier before I crippled his engines and damage control...

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

Any Narn who lets any fighter get into weapons range on his ship deserves everything he gets. E-mines are the most effective anti fighter weapon in the galaxy. Congratulations on getting past them, that's real talent!!!!!!!!!!

 

[angelus2000]

Suprised he didnt fire them point blank, like dropping them a 1/2 inch from the shooters stem. Shooting at fighters surrounding you with your own Emines is a perfectly viable thing to do for a Narn to do.

 

[Alexb83]

They are slow loading, remember I picked my timing carefully.

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

Yeah, Alex, why didn't he fire the e-mines with the safeties off, even if he catches his own ship in the blast, it would have done less damage to him than the Nials.

Actually, scratch that, if your using Armageddon, he fires the Nials first so using the e-mines wouldn't have helped. Head cold, not thinking too clearly.

 

[Alexb83]

Doh... if I'd remembered that I fired first, I needn't have worried about the emines, slow loading or not.