Show the Type 99 some love
- Thread starter Mr Evil
- Start date
I agree, but in some wargames players remove the casualties. Go figure. Anyway, the real question asked was whether infantry could obtain Cover behind a tank. They could not, BUT it was allowed to use the tank to Obscure LOS or Block it instead. Where Matt's comment became intriguing was that after the tank was disabled it then might be considered as terrain and offer Cover under that condition. That doesn't require a rewrite of the rules and can help a bit with keeping some realism in use.Paladin said:Why wouldn't you use them as terrain/cover?BuShips said:
They don't suddenly become ethereal after they die.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Hiromoon said:
Pretty much!:lol:
hmm ok so asking a question now makes you someone who advocates something..... right
Hey Guys,
Here's an interesting thought. Granted Wave 1 was difficult for the PLA in that their tank in unable to actually cope with tough tank battles and yes the PLA were out gunned *but* when air units are brought out, a lot of armour is going to be made redundant or at least in need of specialised AA suport to avoid being scrapped very quickly. What this means is that sure you can have an Abrams for 420pts (I think that's right) *but* you're going to also have to purchase a stinger team *or* a stryker as well just to give your units a better survivability. The basic PLA infantry unit already has a launcher which will hopefully be able to deal with air units (although not guaranteed but I am assuming will be able to). To boot you already have two in the squad. You will therefore be able to spend your points allocation on PLA infantry for anti air and keep them around the tanks and spend more points on tanks to overwhelm enemy ground defenses (you may choose to you FAVs and IFVs too but the basic point is your anti-air capability is already good in infantry squads). So wave 1 may have been a bummer but as soon as wave four is out...you'll notice the huge savings points wise because you won't have to spend much on dedicated AA platforms.
Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong in my assumption but I am assuming that infantry units are able to shoot at air units although it is not stated in the basic rules or the cards. I'm assuming that there will be an advanced rule about that (it would seem silly to me if the infantry sqauds were unable to actually point their weapons up at something above them and shoot regardless of penetration ability).
Just a thought and it may go some way to explaining the points cost.
Here's an interesting thought. Granted Wave 1 was difficult for the PLA in that their tank in unable to actually cope with tough tank battles and yes the PLA were out gunned *but* when air units are brought out, a lot of armour is going to be made redundant or at least in need of specialised AA suport to avoid being scrapped very quickly. What this means is that sure you can have an Abrams for 420pts (I think that's right) *but* you're going to also have to purchase a stinger team *or* a stryker as well just to give your units a better survivability. The basic PLA infantry unit already has a launcher which will hopefully be able to deal with air units (although not guaranteed but I am assuming will be able to). To boot you already have two in the squad. You will therefore be able to spend your points allocation on PLA infantry for anti air and keep them around the tanks and spend more points on tanks to overwhelm enemy ground defenses (you may choose to you FAVs and IFVs too but the basic point is your anti-air capability is already good in infantry squads). So wave 1 may have been a bummer but as soon as wave four is out...you'll notice the huge savings points wise because you won't have to spend much on dedicated AA platforms.
Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong in my assumption but I am assuming that infantry units are able to shoot at air units although it is not stated in the basic rules or the cards. I'm assuming that there will be an advanced rule about that (it would seem silly to me if the infantry sqauds were unable to actually point their weapons up at something above them and shoot regardless of penetration ability).
Just a thought and it may go some way to explaining the points cost.
tiepilot1138
Banded Mongoose
I wouldn't think a LAW type weapon could shoot at an aircraft. Does that work in real life?
Well, I'll point you to the first battle of Mogadishu in 1993 when Super Six One and Super Six Four were shot down during Operation Gothic Serpent. RPGs brought both Blackhawks down... For Helicopters..
Other aircraft...I mean what one would concider more of a proper aircraft.. No real recorded cases.
Other aircraft...I mean what one would concider more of a proper aircraft.. No real recorded cases.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Hey Hiro it's your perfect machine gun, the barrels never overheat!
Rule the office with your own rubber band gatling gun! http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/
Rule the office with your own rubber band gatling gun!
http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/tiepilot1138
Banded Mongoose
Gibbs said:
While I agree that if the weapon can reach the target it can hit it, I seem to remember from my days with LAW's, they are unguided, and getting it to the target was enough of an exercise. I can imagine hitting a slow moving target (like a hovering helo), but anything moving at anything near a decent rate would be next to impossible.
Not to mention the conscript this was thrust into the hands of to attempt to hit said moving target...
I would think there should be some kind of modifier to reflect the increased difficulty.
emperorpenguin said:Hey Hiro it's your perfect machine gun, the barrels never overheat!
Rule the office with your own rubber band gatling gun!
I want it! :lol:
emperorpenguin said:Hey Hiro it's your perfect machine gun, the barrels never overheat!
Rule the office with your own rubber band gatling gun!
They are pretty cool, I got a mate the 6 gun version for xmas a few years ago, and his GF still hasn't forgiven me.... Or his cat if the cat realised it came from me
Mr Evil said:
Yes, yes it does. It also has more stopping power but that's cause it isn't in 28mm scale! :lol:
That's true hence the chopper using a TOW reference. RPGs wouldn't have been nearly as effective against Black Hawks in Mogadishu had it not been for the fact that the Black Hawks had been hovering in fixed positions. I'd imagine that there wouldn't be a modifier to the troops ability to shoot so much as the helo's hit score depending on movement style.tiepilot1138 said:
But the fact still remains, I think, that after a few waves armour won't be playing as greater role as it was during wave 1 and quiet frankly unless you're playing a decent sized battle hardly any force except the PLA would find it worth fielding an MBT. A type 99 and several infantry squads can easily fill up a 1000pt roster (1 MBT [350pts], 2 Full squads [380pts], 2 squads with team 1 and 2 [260pts], this is basically a 35 model force with at least 6 AT weapons *and* an MBT). Whereas other factions really are pushing it to actually get a tank into a thousand points because it is nearly half their points straight away.
Very few armies could actually consider taking more than a tank in battles once they get the rest of their forces and force choices. The fact that a PLA squad can take out an MBT and deal with light armoured threats quickly should be a decent benefit. The lack of armour for soldiers is frustrating but now that an IFV is available surely that will get them close enough to unleash their deadly arsenal.
Does that seem like a fair statement?
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