Shadows Q&A

[Shade of Black]

After going through the rules for 2nd Ed I came up with a few questions I noticed right away. Hopefully a few people can help me puzzle this out before I go into a game.

1) Can Shadows repair multiple crits per turn? The text seems to support this choice but no other race in the game repairs more than once per turn. It would seem logical that it is a Shadow only rule but it doesn't specifically say so.

2) Do the shields on the Shadow fighters apply when I use them as interceptors? In other words when roll a 1 is a shield point taken off or is it just destroyed?

3)The rules are a bit hazy for the shadows, can I "Warp in" to the battlefield using Hyperspace Mastery and then on my next turn say "I'm Warping Out". Or can they just choose to leave the turn they come in, effectively a hit and run?

4) Is the Warp Point Disrupter considered a weapon for the purposes of losing weapons to critical hits? On the same note is a Dispersal Tube considered a weapon?

 

[Shadow Queen]

After going through the rules for 2nd Ed I came up with a few questions I noticed right away. Hopefully a few people can help me puzzle this out before I go into a game.

1) Can Shadows repair multiple crits per turn? The text seems to support this choice but no other race in the game repairs more than once per turn. It would seem logical that it is a Shadow only rule but it doesn't specifically say so.

2) Do the shields on the Shadow fighters apply when I use them as interceptors? In other words when roll a 1 is a shield point taken off or is it just destroyed?

3)The rules are a bit hazy for the shadows, can I "Warp in" to the battlefield using Hyperspace Mastery and then on my next turn say "I'm Warping Out". Or can they just choose to leave the turn they come in, effectively a hit and run?

4) Is the Warp Point Disrupter considered a weapon for the purposes of losing weapons to critical hits? On the same note is a Dispersal Tube considered a weapon?

1. if more than 1 crit was made in the same turn. They are repaired in the following end phase (Not the end phase they were caused but the turn after.)

3. you can only Jump (Phase) in or jump (Phase) out but not both, if you Phase out of a battle you cant return to battle.

4. if you shoot your fighters you cant use the Jump Point Disrupter or fire.

hope that helps.

 

[Shadow Queen]

welcome to the fun palace

 

[dag'karlove]

You beat me to it derina. And thanks for the avatar change it is appreciated.

 

[LaranosTZ]

To add,

2.) No, this was rulemastered, the shields do not count when a ship is destroyed acting as an interceptor. It also does not protect you from AF firepower, nor dogfighting death. The only time a shield protects a fighter is when it is hit from a normal weapon from a ship.

3.) If you jump in, you can't jump out, since they have now ruled you can only go one direction with a shadow ship in a single game. (As opposed to normal fleets, where if one ship uses it's jump engine to jump in, it can use the hyperspace point generated by a different ship to jump out.)

4.) Anything listed on the weapon table is considered a 'weapon' for the purposes of a weapon critical. So to answer your question, yes...the fighter dispersal tube, the beam and the jump point disruptor all are weapon systems.

After going through the rules for 2nd Ed I came up with a few questions I noticed right away. Hopefully a few people can help me puzzle this out before I go into a game.

1) Can Shadows repair multiple crits per turn? The text seems to support this choice but no other race in the game repairs more than once per turn. It would seem logical that it is a Shadow only rule but it doesn't specifically say so.

2) Do the shields on the Shadow fighters apply when I use them as interceptors? In other words when roll a 1 is a shield point taken off or is it just destroyed?

3)The rules are a bit hazy for the shadows, can I "Warp in" to the battlefield using Hyperspace Mastery and then on my next turn say "I'm Warping Out". Or can they just choose to leave the turn they come in, effectively a hit and run?

4) Is the Warp Point Disrupter considered a weapon for the purposes of losing weapons to critical hits? On the same note is a Dispersal Tube considered a weapon?

 

[Lokai]

guess i missed that rulemastering as far as fighter/shields goes...that really blows chunks. all around shadow fighters suck tail pipe, but i THOUGHT they were at least good at their intended role of assault fighters being able to take an extra hit from AF fire going in. well hopefull shadows will get some new ships like the vorlons to help them out at low PL matches cus i just can't see fielding shadow fighters.

 

[Da Boss]

guess i missed that rulemastering as far as fighter/shields goes...that really blows chunks. all around shadow fighters suck tail pipe, but i THOUGHT they were at least good at their intended role of assault fighters being able to take an extra hit from AF fire going in. well hopefull shadows will get some new ships like the vorlons to help them out at low PL matches cus i just can't see fielding shadow fighters.

Hello and Welcome

There has been some discussion on this in the past ! To sum up IIRC everyone bar Matt and possibly Katadder (?) (anyone else?) who posted on it agreed that the Shadow fighter needed changing, no agreement on best way though. There is an article in S+P which does explain Matts point of view.....ie why they seem so weak(especially when Vorlon fighters are not and are cheaper)

There has indeed been mention of a new Vorlon ship - one hopes the Shadows don't get screwed again and get nothing.

Crossed fingers..................

 

[Lokai]

don't spose someone can point me to where this rulemastering on shadow fighters is? looked through the Q&A and didn't see anything.....figure everything should be in Q&A or an errata as not everyone is going to have seen every post out there....ah well....yeah hope shadows get some lovin....they may be my second fleet i put together....havn't quite decided just yet.

So the rules on AF states that they ignore Dodge and Stealth says nothing about shields....and even in S&P 50 they actually state that shields can help them survive AF fire or was that just worded wrong?

 

[Harry Lonsdale]

The tactics articles in S&P do have some rules errors in them, including the shields vs AF.

 

[SylvrDragon]

I'd like to know where it was ruled that shadows could repair multiple crits? It's true that in the book it says "Shadows vessels take damage as normal but critical hits are automatically repaired..." but this seems like it could simply be a lovely display of English grammar. In following proper grammar you could say the same thing about any ship. The EA does repair critical hits in the end phase is a valid, grammatically correct and accurate statement, yet EA is only allowed to repair a single crit at a time.

 

[LaranosTZ]

Actually, the plural in the words 'critical hits' gramatically defines it as all critical hits. In the wording for repairing critical hits as and end phase action it states that they may only attempt to repair one critical hit on each ship, specifically.

 

[mollari_uk]

...
3.) If you jump in, you can't jump out, since they have now ruled you can only go one direction with a shadow ship in a single game. (As opposed to normal fleets, where if one ship uses it's jump engine to jump in, it can use the hyperspace point generated by a different ship to jump out.)

The Shadow are the only race who can't jump into a battle and out again. So much for Hyperspace "Mastery" and ancient technology.

:x

 

[Right Hand of God]

Unfortunately the shadows and Vorlons got the short sticky end of the stick in 2nd Edition in a number of ways.

 

[SylvrDragon]

Unfortunately the shadows and Vorlons got the short sticky end of the stick in 2nd Edition in a number of ways.

There much better off than in 1st. And I'd hardly call any fleet that has self repair, shields, precise BEAMS, hyperspace mastery, auto crit removal and SM as the ones getting the "short sticky end of the stick". Shadows are still, by far, the easiest race to play. Seriously take a look at the Young Shadow Ship and compare it to another war. Let's say my Warlock for instance. The Shadow has the same amount of hit points, has superb maneuverability, shields that regenerate, self repair 2d6 and a main gun that is both MUCH easier to use, thanks to boresight, and is more effective. The only thing the Warlock has more all around firepower and that's it. The Shadow Ship is more durable due to better defenses and can choose it's battles with great ease. Ok, so they can't rush in and then out again, but when attacking they get to choose where the enter from and they do so with out any warning. It's not like the rest of us that have to put a big neon sign, in the form of a jump point, on the prior turn which gives some warning to our entry point. In my opinion they came out ahead.

 

[Galatea]

3.) If you jump in, you can't jump out, since they have now ruled you can only go one direction with a shadow ship in a single game. (As opposed to normal fleets, where if one ship uses it's jump engine to jump in, it can use the hyperspace point generated by a different ship to jump out.)

That's kinda silly.
Where is that stated?

 

[SylvrDragon]

it states it in on page 26, sentence 3 of paragraph 4 under the "Entering Realspace" section.

"...it may not create a jump point for the rest of the battle, as the jump engines require extensive recharging."

I realize that technically speaking the Shadows don't create jump points, but they still have to use the "Initiate Jump Point" special action to jump which implies that they are making use of a "jump point" when entering or leaving hyperspace.

The limitation is that no ship, save for the Blue Star, is allowed to make use if its jump engines more than once in the game. When you decide to jump in you forgo your option of being able to jump out. And I realize in other fleets you only need a single ship to create a jump point, which enables them to effectively jump in and out, but it's not nearly that simple. For instance, you would have to create a jump point directly in the front of the line fo ships desiring to leave, then hop it doesn't scatter way off course and even then it may take a turn or two for your ships to make it through. In addition to that, the ship creating the jump point is nearly helpless while creating the jump point. If the shadows could jump in and then out on the next turn it would be excessively broken when you consider that their ships are, on average, harder to destroy than ships of equal size in most other fleets and their weapons are capable of slicing any ship of equal priority into ribbons. This would, in effect, allow a Shadow player to jump in and deal massive amount of damage to their enemies only to leave before any real retaliation could be brought to bear. I know that some of you may say that this is how the Shadows worked in the series, but this is not the series, this is the game and balance is important here.

 

[Sulfurdown]

Shadows are also one of the only factions that will automatically lose some low Priority scenarios - balance.

 

[SylvrDragon]

Shadows are also one of the only factions that will automatically lose some low Priority scenarios - balance.

Indeed. Though this is a weakness that only manifests in Campaigns and even then the Shadow player has some control over avoiding such battles. A weakness, though not much of one. My point, however, was that they are, at the very least, a solid and dangerous fleet. I will admit that at the current time I'd be more inclined to lea towards overpowered than underpowered.

 

[Ripple]

Shadows are helpless vs any good fighter race...

Shadows are very vulnerable to a number of crits as all their attack dice are in one weapon/arc with low numbers of AD.

The Warlock vs young debate skipped the Warlocks interceptors, substantial advantages in total AD and fighter compliment, presence of a significant anti-fighter system and troop score (shadows have none). It also skipped over the issues Shadows face with being stunned and telepathically jammed.

Oh, and the Warlock can make itself 1/3 larger by taking a special action.

In a one on one battle the T-bolts could be left on the table and you'd win every time.

Vorlons are harder to say, the ships seem to lack some staying power, but that could be due to having no active defenses, not even CBD...

Ripple

 

[SylvrDragon]

Beams usually eliminate fighters pretty quickly and since most fighters are pack rather tightly it would be easy to hit several with a single beam. Yes it is harder for the Shadows to deal with fighters, but they are HARDLY helpless. lol

Young ignores interceptors, cannot be boarded (so troops don't matter), can sit in a Warlocks side arcs out of range of its pulse cannons and dispatch fighters, are not going to be with out guns for more than a turn and can, once again, simply sit back out of range in the Warlocks side arcs during this time only to stay there once their weapons are back where they can 100% safe from the Warlock its self and then obliterate the Warlock, and the T-Bolts statistically don't even have enough ad to break the Ships shields let alone do enough damage to overcome its self repair. And unless you are lucky enough to get the refit, which cannot happen in one off games, then the Psi Corps are the only fleet list with psychics and the Shadows have the range, maneuverability and speed to easily stay outside the 12" reach of their psychic crew abilities and the chances, thanks to both Scout initiative sinks and the Shadows +6 initiative mod; not to mention that each ship only gets 1 chance to jam a ship and both versions of the Shadow Ship get +2 to their roll against being disrupted. As for physical disruption, the chances of the EA hitting a Young with its boresighed beams are pretty damn slim.

Oh, and what on earth do you mean by the Warlock can make its self "1/3 larger"?

In a one on one battle the T-Bolts wouldn't destroy the Young before the end of the scenario and the Young would win EVERYTIME unless the Warlock's owner had some SERIOUS luck!

And I don't recall mentioning the Vorlons?