Shadow Hunter-Tourney

Do you think this is over powere? Please include opinion

  • No, its perfectly fine

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, lower the hull value

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, lower the reduce the damage value

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, reduce the AD on the weapons

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, reduce the weapon range

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, raise it a priority level

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
We've all been over this many, many times. It's one of the two broken ships out there and the simplest fix is to reduce its hull value to 5.
 
Triggy said:
We've all been over this many, many times. It's one of the two broken ships out there and the simplest fix is to reduce its hull value to 5.

Let me guess, is the other the Sagittarius? :p
 
Reaverman said:
Triggy said:
We've all been over this many, many times. It's one of the two broken ships out there and the simplest fix is to reduce its hull value to 5.

Let me guess, is the other the Sagittarius? :p
Exactly. The Shadow Hunter fix is so simple that I see no reason not to use it. Who knows how things will change with Armageddon.
 
Triggy said:
Reaverman said:
Triggy said:
We've all been over this many, many times. It's one of the two broken ships out there and the simplest fix is to reduce its hull value to 5.

Let me guess, is the other the Sagittarius? :p
Exactly. The Shadow Hunter fix is so simple that I see no reason not to use it. Who knows how things will change with Armageddon.

You know you are the only person to mention the 'A' word, normally thats Wulf's job :p
 
A bit off topic but what's broken about the sagitarius? I haven't personally used/fought it.

PM is okay if you don't want to highjack this thread. :)

Nezeray
 
nezeray said:
A bit off topic but what's broken about the sagitarius? I haven't personally used/fought it.

PM is okay if you don't want to highjack this thread. :)

Nezeray

Well the fact its at PL Skirmish, and you can have ten of them in a tourney
 
Im against the whole dropping the hull simply 'cause its such a huge change. Changing damage value is a much more granular affair.

Think if you drop to hull 5 it need something else to help compensate. The usual "Its overpowered, so lets over-nerf it" thing.
 
Geekybiker said:
Im against the whole dropping the hull simply 'cause its such a huge change. Changing damage value is a much more granular affair.

Think if you drop to hull 5 it need something else to help compensate. The usual "Its overpowered, so lets over-nerf it" thing.

I dont think the Hull being dropped to 5 would nerf it, its got plenty of hits, and a reall nasty beam weapon. Coupled with being SM, its awesome, even at Hull 5. Effectively where it stands, its a War level ship, or an overpowered Battle level ship
 
I'm afraid to say Geeky - at hull 5 it's still on the strong side of Battle level vessels! The change necessary if you were to modify the hit points would be to something like 80!

The Sagittarius is only broken in the tournament lists. In the SFoS list it's fine. The reasons why have already been mentioned and discussed in several forums (just do a search and you'll find at least a half dozen discussing the issue).
 
Triggy said:
I'm afraid to say Geeky - at hull 5 it's still on the strong side of Battle level vessels! The change necessary if you were to modify the hit points would be to something like 80!

The Sagittarius is only broken in the tournament lists. In the SFoS list it's fine. The reasons why have already been mentioned and discussed in several forums (just do a search and you'll find at least a half dozen discussing the issue).

I agree with Triggy
 
Triggy said:
I'm afraid to say Geeky - at hull 5 it's still on the strong side of Battle level vessels! The change necessary if you were to modify the hit points would be to something like 80!

The Sagittarius is only broken in the tournament lists. In the SFoS list it's fine. The reasons why have already been mentioned and discussed in several forums (just do a search and you'll find at least a half dozen discussing the issue).

Maybe so. Just the amount of change hull 6 to hull 5 represents rubs me the wrong way. I guess I dont think they are really as bad as you think. Trouble with going to hull 5 is that double and triple damage weapons REALLY hurt ancients when they hit.

Like I said, anytime someone screams something is overpowered its almost always ended up underpowered after the fix. (fighters anyone?) I dont deny that the hunters are overpowered as it stand, just not by that factor.

-edit Im thinking vs long range beam fleet in particular which Being DD, SAP and Beam will make short work at hull 5. For example a primus will do 47.46pts of damage to a hunter on average. Mind that is at a longer range than the shadows can fire. That's nearly 1/3 its damage on a merely average hit. A "Good hit" could nearly destroy it in one round even without criticals.

Oh and Ive read the other threads too.
 
Geekybiker said:
Triggy said:
I'm afraid to say Geeky - at hull 5 it's still on the strong side of Battle level vessels! The change necessary if you were to modify the hit points would be to something like 80!

The Sagittarius is only broken in the tournament lists. In the SFoS list it's fine. The reasons why have already been mentioned and discussed in several forums (just do a search and you'll find at least a half dozen discussing the issue).

Maybe so. Just the amount of change hull 6 to hull 5 represents rubs me the wrong way. I guess I dont think they are really as bad as you think. Trouble with going to hull 5 is that double and triple damage weapons REALLY hurt ancients when they hit.

Like I said, anytime someone screams something is overpowered its almost always ended up underpowered after the fix. (fighters anyone?) I dont deny that the hunters are overpowered as it stand, just not by that factor.

5 AD B/SAP/TD/P against Hull 6 averages 46.96 hits

5 AD B/SAP/TD/P against Hull 5 averages 69.42 hits

The method of lowering the Damage value, would probably nerf the ship more, than lowering the hull. If you lowered it to 100, it has possibilities of being destroyed in 2 shots. Where as lowering the hull by one, means its takes at least 3 shots and does not under power the craft.
 
I am surprised how many people don't thing the damage value is a bit... excessive.

150 damage? Yikes!

Everyone is focused on the armour value. In my opinion ALL shadow ships should have 6 hull to represent the adaptive organic hulls... but the damage needs to pulled back a little.

I mean, the hunter (150) has twice what the scout (75) has and only a quarter less than the BATTLE CRAB (200)... the mother of all warships (fluff-wise, anyway).

If they dropped it to 110 or 120 I think it would be a lot fairer.

Keep in mind that all of this is coming from someone who has never played the shadows... or ACtA for that matter.
 
Personally I think they feel more right fluff wise with lower hull and higher damage values. HITTING shadow ships isnt the problem, they just absorb soooo much damage before they die.

Also its worth noting that the Shadow scout has stealth so is tougher than it might seem :p

But anyway, lowering the hull to 5 seems a very simple fix and it works (I find the shadow fleet about right with that, sure its powerful but theyre SHADOWS :p) If you fiddle with the damage scores too much you'll end up with alot of argument over what exactly the right level is (and I dont like to mess to much with published rules, a simple fix to hull 5 is fair enough).

One more thing to note is that the hunter WAS originally hull 5 in sky full of stars (though the SFoS shadows and vorlons were in my oppinion a bit too fragile)
 
Locutus9956 said:
Personally I think they feel more right fluff wise with lower hull and higher damage values. HITTING shadow ships isnt the problem, they just absorb soooo much damage before they die.

Also its worth noting that the Shadow scout has stealth so is tougher than it might seem :p

But anyway, lowering the hull to 5 seems a very simple fix and it works (I find the shadow fleet about right with that, sure its powerful but theyre SHADOWS :p) If you fiddle with the damage scores too much you'll end up with alot of argument over what exactly the right level is (and I dont like to mess to much with published rules, a simple fix to hull 5 is fair enough).

One more thing to note is that the hunter WAS originally hull 5 in sky full of stars (though the SFoS shadows and vorlons were in my oppinion a bit too fragile)
Vorlons aint too bad, and they coped with the EA and Centauri ships last weekend no probs. The bizarre thing is, the Shadows and Vorlon ships cancel each other out. But the upped hunter in my opinion, tips the balance in favour of the shadows
 
Vorlons Vs shadows? Owch no way the SM speed of the shadow means basically a one sided brutal machoistic massacre. it wouldn't be so bad if Vorlons could all stop and pivot ;)
 
Back
Top