Shadow Hunter-Tourney
- Thread starter Reaverman
- Start date
TenaciousB
Mongoose
Nah, its fine as it is - after all, its my next tourney fleet! :twisted:
Only joking - lower the hull please!
Only joking - lower the hull please!
Locutus9956
Mongoose
aye. Drop it to hull 5 and all of a sudden it seems magiacally balanced 
Triggy said:Exactly. The Shadow Hunter fix is so simple that I see no reason not to use it. Who knows how things will change with Armageddon.Reaverman said:Triggy said:
Let me guess, is the other the Sagittarius?
You know you are the only person to mention the 'A' word, normally thats Wulf's job
Geekybiker
Mongoose
Im against the whole dropping the hull simply 'cause its such a huge change. Changing damage value is a much more granular affair.
Think if you drop to hull 5 it need something else to help compensate. The usual "Its overpowered, so lets over-nerf it" thing.
Think if you drop to hull 5 it need something else to help compensate. The usual "Its overpowered, so lets over-nerf it" thing.
I'm afraid to say Geeky - at hull 5 it's still on the strong side of Battle level vessels! The change necessary if you were to modify the hit points would be to something like 80!
The Sagittarius is only broken in the tournament lists. In the SFoS list it's fine. The reasons why have already been mentioned and discussed in several forums (just do a search and you'll find at least a half dozen discussing the issue).
The Sagittarius is only broken in the tournament lists. In the SFoS list it's fine. The reasons why have already been mentioned and discussed in several forums (just do a search and you'll find at least a half dozen discussing the issue).
Geekybiker
Mongoose
Triggy said:
Maybe so. Just the amount of change hull 6 to hull 5 represents rubs me the wrong way. I guess I dont think they are really as bad as you think. Trouble with going to hull 5 is that double and triple damage weapons REALLY hurt ancients when they hit.
Like I said, anytime someone screams something is overpowered its almost always ended up underpowered after the fix. (fighters anyone?) I dont deny that the hunters are overpowered as it stand, just not by that factor.
-edit Im thinking vs long range beam fleet in particular which Being DD, SAP and Beam will make short work at hull 5. For example a primus will do 47.46pts of damage to a hunter on average. Mind that is at a longer range than the shadows can fire. That's nearly 1/3 its damage on a merely average hit. A "Good hit" could nearly destroy it in one round even without criticals.
Oh and Ive read the other threads too.
Geekybiker said:
5 AD B/SAP/TD/P against Hull 6 averages 46.96 hits
5 AD B/SAP/TD/P against Hull 5 averages 69.42 hits
The method of lowering the Damage value, would probably nerf the ship more, than lowering the hull. If you lowered it to 100, it has possibilities of being destroyed in 2 shots. Where as lowering the hull by one, means its takes at least 3 shots and does not under power the craft.
I am surprised how many people don't thing the damage value is a bit... excessive.
150 damage? Yikes!
Everyone is focused on the armour value. In my opinion ALL shadow ships should have 6 hull to represent the adaptive organic hulls... but the damage needs to pulled back a little.
I mean, the hunter (150) has twice what the scout (75) has and only a quarter less than the BATTLE CRAB (200)... the mother of all warships (fluff-wise, anyway).
If they dropped it to 110 or 120 I think it would be a lot fairer.
Keep in mind that all of this is coming from someone who has never played the shadows... or ACtA for that matter.
150 damage? Yikes!
Everyone is focused on the armour value. In my opinion ALL shadow ships should have 6 hull to represent the adaptive organic hulls... but the damage needs to pulled back a little.
I mean, the hunter (150) has twice what the scout (75) has and only a quarter less than the BATTLE CRAB (200)... the mother of all warships (fluff-wise, anyway).
If they dropped it to 110 or 120 I think it would be a lot fairer.
Keep in mind that all of this is coming from someone who has never played the shadows... or ACtA for that matter.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
Personally I think they feel more right fluff wise with lower hull and higher damage values. HITTING shadow ships isnt the problem, they just absorb soooo much damage before they die.
Also its worth noting that the Shadow scout has stealth so is tougher than it might seem
But anyway, lowering the hull to 5 seems a very simple fix and it works (I find the shadow fleet about right with that, sure its powerful but theyre SHADOWS) If you fiddle with the damage scores too much you'll end up with alot of argument over what exactly the right level is (and I dont like to mess to much with published rules, a simple fix to hull 5 is fair enough).
One more thing to note is that the hunter WAS originally hull 5 in sky full of stars (though the SFoS shadows and vorlons were in my oppinion a bit too fragile)
Also its worth noting that the Shadow scout has stealth so is tougher than it might seem
But anyway, lowering the hull to 5 seems a very simple fix and it works (I find the shadow fleet about right with that, sure its powerful but theyre SHADOWS
) If you fiddle with the damage scores too much you'll end up with alot of argument over what exactly the right level is (and I dont like to mess to much with published rules, a simple fix to hull 5 is fair enough).One more thing to note is that the hunter WAS originally hull 5 in sky full of stars (though the SFoS shadows and vorlons were in my oppinion a bit too fragile)
Vorlons aint too bad, and they coped with the EA and Centauri ships last weekend no probs. The bizarre thing is, the Shadows and Vorlon ships cancel each other out. But the upped hunter in my opinion, tips the balance in favour of the shadowsLocutus9956 said:Personally I think they feel more right fluff wise with lower hull and higher damage values. HITTING shadow ships isnt the problem, they just absorb soooo much damage before they die.
Also its worth noting that the Shadow scout has stealth so is tougher than it might seem
But anyway, lowering the hull to 5 seems a very simple fix and it works (I find the shadow fleet about right with that, sure its powerful but theyre SHADOWS
One more thing to note is that the hunter WAS originally hull 5 in sky full of stars (though the SFoS shadows and vorlons were in my oppinion a bit too fragile)
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