Shadow Fighters - Just why

[Stonehorse]

I'd use it (it being a Shadow Stalker) to jump out of Hyperspace in the enemies Aft, while Shadow Ship(s) forces the enemy to get out of the way and take the brunt of the enemies attacks.

I may even take a fleet of just Shadow Stalkers and Shadow Scouts, that way in low PL games I'll have more than 2 ships, which is always a nice change.

@ Da Boss.

Maybe if we create enough long threads (we've both made one each in the last couple of days) we'll get Mongoose to make it a wing of three flights... here's hoping! :wink:

 

[Da Boss]

Well either that or they get so bored of me moaning about it they keep it the same out of spite

Lets hope for some change - it needs it!

 

[dant164]

I have the answer as to why the shadows fighters suffered.

It balance, Mongoose have never released a supplement of edition that had BOTH Vorlons and shadows really good, to quote a film "Their can be, only one"

Dont get me wrong, i love 2e all that psi-corey goodness. :twisted:

 

[Sulfurdown]

Somewhat related to the fighters with H/S Mastery. Since ships can only open one jump point in a game, I'm assuming that the Shadows do not suffer this penalty. Otherwise they have no way to flee a fight if they jumped in since they don't open vortex that others can use? And do the fighters get the ability to H/S Mastery in to a scenario?

 

[Da Boss]

The fighters use exactly same rules as Shadow ships so should be able to in a scenario? Might be better off staying in the hypespace though.........

 

[katadder]

The fighters use exactly same rules as Shadow ships so should be able to in a scenario? Might be better off staying in the hypespace though.........

why? they only really lack at dogfightes (which i think shields should work in). come out of hyperspace and do an attack run they have very respectable anti-ship firepower.

 

[Da Boss]

Yes well shields don't presently work against dogfighters so if you ooponent has a fighter/s on CAP on their ship - bye bye Shadow fighter. Also Shields don't work gainst AF - so unless its a Escortless unescorted White Star or similar it ain't going to do much.

 

[katadder]

course it is, the fighter is hull 5. alot of fighters have to put up with anti-fighter. WS fighters have to just to attack ships which is their main purpose. its a good anti-shipping fighter. and even +0 is not all that bad, i have lost ISA nials to kothas in 1e (so we were +4 dogfight) and lost raziks to the drazi bombers. alot of races dont get any dogfight ability and some are even at -1 on their antiship fighters.

 

[Da Boss]

or an +1 dogfight with their fleet carriers - getting them back and Campaign rules they cost double. And those anti ship fighhters / bombers get a longer range than 2" to avoid the whole AF problem and can have escorts. shadows - not so much.

Comparing it to White star fighter (which is an excellent multi role platform) - only thing the Shadow fighter has is the hyperspace mastery and shields (that don't work against the things that matter) aginst +3 dogfight, +4 speed, Accurate guns. Yeah they are the same.

Any good reason why the Shadow fighter costs so much (looking at all the other 2 per flight fighters and their advantages) - love to hear it - if it was 3 or 4 per flight - then its useful cos you can take some losses.

Lastly the Shadows have the fighter as their ONLY low level choice - the ISA have others even without allies.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

We see Shadow Fighters blow Frazis out of space without apparent effort in the show. Maybe Shadow Fighters should get +1 dogfight because of the clear superiority to the Frazi?

 

[Da Boss]

also am not sure if Shadow fighters can be telepathically jammed in addition to all their other problems. :?:

 

[Burger]

We see Shadow Fighters blow Frazis out of space without apparent effort in the show. Maybe Shadow Fighters should get +1 dogfight because of the clear superiority to the Frazi?

Well the Frazi's were trying to run away, the Shadows were pursuing... if they were trying to fight each other who knows which way it'd go? In the end the Frazi's rammed the Shadows, to let G'Kar escape - trying to guarantee at least one escapee, rather than risking being all destroyed by fighting.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Ramming an enemy is a pure desperation move. If the Frazis had a real fighting chance they'd have fought to delay the Shadows to cover G'Kar's escape.

 

[Da Boss]

I agree thought it was intended to show the bravery of the Narn and the sheer folly of fighting the Shadows without superior numbers - but somehow being rammed means they are rubbish dogfighters !? :roll:

Although in the game the Narn would have 5 Frazi vs 2 Shadow fighters........

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Which would be enough to win dogfights reliably even if the shields did protect them...

 

[Da Boss]

So three pages and no real answer to the question............

 

[Sulfurdown]

We see Shadow Fighters blow Frazis out of space without apparent effort in the show. Maybe Shadow Fighters should get +1 dogfight because of the clear superiority to the Frazi?

Might be a good point of comparison. The Frazi is a little slower and doesn't have shields, and extra AD but without the weapon traits.

Shadow Fighter [1-2/patrol, +2 Spd, Shields, AP/DD]
Frazi Fighter [5/patrol, +1 AD]

So the Shadow Fighter is roughly 5 times more powerful then the Frazi? Frazi's could easily swarm Shadow fighters and wipe them out.

 

[Ripple]

How were folks thinking the shield would work in a dogfight? Just blocking one 'loss' as flights don't take damage. They either lose a dogfight, result removed from table, or they take a hit, result removed from table. Never damage as such.

Thoughts..

Shields could...

add one to dogfight rating
negate the bonus for supporting flights (say one per shield box)
give the flight an additional 'save' (somewhat like the psy-core thing)

Just looking for a rule that could be applied to flights other than the shadow fighter. This could in part support additional types of shadow flights or other races as they come out.

Ripple

 

[Da Boss]

Perosnally would prefer to replace with something like this:

Shadow Spitfire Fighter Patrol (2 flights per Wing)
The polarity cannon mounted in the nose of this craft is incredibly powerful and its pulses can easily rip through the armour of the largest capital ship. Other fighter craft engaging these ships are usually advised to rely on their own agility to evade these devastating blasts and engage as quickly as possible. Like all Shadow vessels, these fighters have the ability to phase in and out of hyperspace at will, effectively making them jump-capable, an enormous advantage for so small a craft to possess.

Speed: 12 Turns: SM Hull: 5 Damage: -
Crew: - Troops: - Dogfighting: +0
Craft: -
Special Rules: Atmospheric, Dodge 4+, Fighter,
In Service:

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Polarity Cannon 6 T 4 AP, Double Damage

with the following addition

Shadow Swiftfire Fighter Patrol (2 flights per Wing)
A reaction to the devastating fighter wings of the Minbari, the Swiftfire was crash evolved to deal with these irritating swarms and did so with frightening efficiency. Like all Shadow vessels, these fighters have the ability to phase in and out of hyperspace at will, effectively making them jump-capable, an enormous advantage for so small a craft to possess.

Speed: 14 Turns: SM
Hull: 4 Damage: -
Crew: - Troops: -
Dogfighting: +4 Craft: -
Special Rules: Atmospheric, Dodge 2+, Fighter,
In Service:

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Light Polarity Cannon 2 T 2 Accurate

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I really hate the fan-applied names for Shadow units... :evil: