Sell me on Elric/Hawkmoon

andakitty

Mongoose
I am interested, but was so let down by RQ and its marketing I am having trouble convincing myself to even get excited...I start wanting it but then remember a year ago. A slim volume that needed another, then another, etc. to get all the rules. Ralios in a separate pdf. Rules that were confusing and contradictory. etc.

Still, its Elric and Hawkmoon.

So, those of you with the faith, convert me (and possibly other fence-sitters lurking here) back to the Way of the Mongoose. Tell me why I should buy into the MRQ version of EC. In addition to the fact that it will hopefully be a living in-print franchise with all that entails, of course. Also tell me how you have made MRQ work for you, if you can.

Please.
 
I heard with every supplement that you buy you get a free Entropy Meal!

elric_happymeal.jpg


P.S. Everybody knows it's Hawkmoon with the Runestaff.
 
Ah, and that is the reason for the pleas last year to not give up on it and come help out with the fixes? :roll:

Cute. :lol:

WHY do you love MRQ...that's what I want to know. :? Not for you to explain your tastes, but why does it work for you so well?
 
weasel_fierce said:
To be honest, I dont think you need to "do" anything to make MRQ work. It works, as written.

Actually, I think it doesn't work in several key areas, namely the confusion surrounding the combat tables, and the problems with high resilience and major wounds. But these can be easily overcome with a few tweaks.

When I first read the MRQ book I was greatly disappointed with it, the lean size of the book, the lack of the complete magic system, and the addition of Legendary Abilities. It seemed overpriced for such a sparse lack of contents.

However, after playtesting the rules for various projects I slowly grew to appreciate some of the more subtle elements. I like the Opposed Test for competing skills - in my opinion, the most important mechanic in the whole rules set. I like in principle (after tweaking) the new wound levels, and the removal of total hit points. I now love the skills of Resilience and Persistence... even though I hated them at first. Even character generation is a step in the right direction.

MRQ facilitates the clear cut resolution of many different forms of contest allowing a broader range of social challenges other than simple combat.

Is MRQ as it stands flawed? Yes.

Can it be fixed? Easily!

Is it in general a good set of rules which will work like a purring engine once Loz's new refinements are published? Yes again!

Do you need to buy 27 different Mongoose books to run Elric? No. The games contain their own copies of the core rules, and I'm sure you can select your preferred rule fixes from this forum or the wiki (or even develop your own)... there are plenty of good ones available.

Am I disappointed that Mongoose wasn't able to shoehorn the original manuscript into the final book? Of course I am. It would have been a divine gift from Arioch himself if the book contained everything originally written... rather than just an excellent book as it now stands. :D

Do I think Mongoose could do a better job in the future? Easily... by reducing the page border width, or failing that by adding more pages, so as to include complete settings and give their customers a better sense of value for money. People don't want to buy systems piecemeal in dozens of thin books... they want single comprehensive core settings books which are truly stand alone games. Make a good one and your customers will buy every single scenario pack afterwards!

Do I think that you should still buy Elric? Hell yes!!! You don't need any other MRQ book to run it... there are rule 'fixes' on the way... and your purchase will add to the economic incentive to further the franchise.

There you go, a positive review supporting a Mongoose product. A complete reversal of my attitude towards the MRQ system which I reviled a year ago. There must be something good in it somewhere... :D
 
Just play it or I'll kill your kitten.

Seriously though, like Pete Nash says, after using the system I find it actually plays pretty well. You know as well as anyone when the rules first came out I was very critical of them. They read worse than they play. I still find it pretty laughable that you can get in up to 5 attacks and 5 parrys in one 5 second round (compared to 1-2 attacks and parries in a 12 second round as on RQ2/3). But in play it still feels pretty much like RQ, which is what matters.

The rules I use that I think you will like (those that remove complexity compared to adding complexity) are:

Combat Table - I use the following one roll system to get all the possible results from the two roll system: If the attacker hits the defender rolls. If the defender succeeds and rolls better than the attackers roll use the Attacker Fails row of the combat table. If the defender succeeds but rolls worse than the attacker use the Attacker Succeeds row of the table.

Uses the whole combat table with one roll instead of two. Try it. I really like it. Salvaged combat for me.

Resilience in Combat - Resilence tests as a result of a Major Wound are at 1/2. I also roll only once each round for a Vital area (rather than up to twice in the rules). On the first failure pass out, but keep rolling once per round, on the second failure die. Some people also use just die when greater than 2xHP are taken to a vital location too, which is even simpler.

High Opposed Rolls - subtract the amount over 100 of the highest skill from both skills and resolve normally (For example 120 versus 100 become 100 versus 80).

Critical Damage - This one doesn't simplify per se, but it adds potentially more damage to criticals - criticals do double rolled damage (plus normal damage bonus). A dagger to the head can seriously f**k up your day again - yay!.

High persistence/resilience/dodge as spell resistence - I haven't played with this as much as combat and am trying to find a way of opposing rolls similar to my combat system, but overcharging keeps messing it up. Currently I use a critical spell resist roll is needed to resist a critical spellcasting roll. So even if your persistence is 150% you are likely going down to a critical casting success.
 
Also, it is worth mentioning that Loz has stated that Persistence and Resilience are capped during character generation in the EC books.
 
Ok, those are very good arguments. It occurs to me that I was not ever 100% happy with RQ or Stormbringer either, and I don't think I ever played them with wholly intact rules as printed. MRQ deserves at least the same chance, therefore I am downloading the RQ core book to read and digest this weekend...and give it a full unbiased hearing. The marketing model will always be a sore spot with me, though, even if I come over.

I wonder, what game engine does Mongoose intend for second ed. Conan, as listed for late summer release? That would be a big factor for me if it is MRQ. The GM book should help a lot, too, becouse official game system alternative rules are always easier to sell to recalcitrant gamers. I would love to make a dent in the local hordes of D20 players...

I would like to hear the thoughts of some of the other posters from last summer as well, like atgxtg and whoever else took part in those early discussions here.
 
I've bought most of the rule system (except legendary heroes of course and the Glorantha books. I've still not played a single MRQ session though, as I think I would have a very hard time selling the thought of moving from RQ3 to MRQ to my players, with MRQ being riddled with flaws. Houseruling the system also seems like a lot of work (I've looked into it).

Basically, I'm still waiting for MRQ to get out of the beta-testing stage... :?

SGL.
 
One major reason is I now DETEST d20! Mongoose is opening or should I say Re-opening the RPG industry to a wider spectrum. Though the game or mechanics are not their invention, they have made it pretty popular once again.

Taken a long dead (GREAT) game and redoing it was clever and well worth the effort.

Other than the reasons mentioned by others, it is very easy to play and teaching others is very easy. The other editions almost required calculators.

The game mechanics are more simplified and I am very sure Mongoose will continue to support the game. Try to buy 2nd and 3rd editions today...

Is this saying I agree with everything and every rule... BY NO MEANS.

But in all, I like it..
 
Rurik said:
Also, it is worth mentioning that Loz has stated that Persistence and Resilience are capped during character generation in the EC books.

Capped in terms of how quickly they advance, not capped as in ceiling.
 
Never mind, I found what I was looking for in older threads.

I love the chargen, and encumbrance rules. The weapon values are growing on me. Combat I would strip down and play without the matrix, it's very confusing as written, still. Not entirely happy with the skills, but they would do. The magic looks like it might be easily converted to more generic fantasy style magic system by treating the runes as 'magic principles' that need to be learned, not found.

So I'm back in. Not for Glorantha, but for fodder for a homebrew fantasy game...Basic rulebook, Companion, Equipment book, Monsters. And the EC stuff. The GM's guide.

Along with the Chaosium BRP book upcoming, I should be happy with gaming again. I'll be able to create a very detailed flavorful D&D style game based on BRP and MRQ.

Very different feel without my preconceived notions of last year. Not perfect and it has warts, but not a bad successor to Stormbringer over-all.
 
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