Sample 1 on 1 gun, then melee combat example please.

[nezeray]

I've been reading over the SRD (don't have my book with me) and am getting a bit confused on how combat works. Especially the time and effect rolls and how they figure in.

Can someone write out the steps and die roll usage for a 1 on 1 gun combat and melee combat?

I'm hoping to demo this soon but am a bit confused.

Thanks

James / Nezeray

 

[Othin]

I know this is an old post, but I pretty much was confused on the same points.

Does the effect roll apply to the skill check or to the damage roll or is there an effect for both?

I was just using two pregenerated thugs (Petty thug 1, and Dangerous thug) from the core rulebook to figure out how combat works, and I'm positing that they both walk into a well lit, debris free, alley or hallway at the same time and end up 12m (medium range) apart.

Pt1 rolled a 12 for starting initiative (is there a bonus for his roll of a 6 and a 6?)

Dt rolled a 4

Round 1

Pt1 used his minor action to draw, and to fire. Dt announced that he was going to dodge. Pt1 rolled a 5,4 +1 (gun combat skill), and -1 (Dts dodge) to equal 9 (Average success?)

On his damage rolls, he rolled a 6,6,1 (Body Pistol 3D6-3) to end up giving 10 damage to Dt. Dt was wearing cloth armor (5 armor) which took the damage down to 5, so Dt lost 5 endurance points. Pt1 now has 5 remaining shots in his pistol.

Dt used his minor action to draw (or would the dodge have been his minor action?), and then fired. His roll was 4,1 +2 (gun combat skill), -1 (because of his earlier dodge) to equal 6, which fails (average failure? Also, does he still minus a round from his clip, or does the failure equate to he never even drew a bead on Pt1?)

Round 2

Pt1 uses a minor action to aim, and then fires. 5,4,+1(gun skill),+1 (aim)=11 (average success)
On his damage roll, he gets 5,2,2 (-3) to equal 6. This is the part where I get messed up. If the effect roll applies here, that would be an average failure. So does that mean that he did not apply any damage to Dt? Really confused on that.

Also, as far as movement goes, if Dt wanted to move up to personal range, would it take 2 turns (1 turn to go from 12 to 6m, and another to go from 6 to 1.5?)

Sorry for the long post, but I hope that by showing my "math" I can get a feel for what I'm doing wrong.

 

[nezeray]

I appreciate you resurrecting this thread, since I'm getting ready to gear up my Traveller demos and still haven't had a chance to figure out combat.

Thanks!

James / Nezeray

 

[Elysianknight]

Dt used his minor action to draw (or would the dodge have been his minor action?), and then fired. His roll was 4,1 +2 (gun combat skill), -1 (because of his earlier dodge) to equal 6, which fails (average failure? Also, does he still minus a round from his clip, or does the failure equate to he never even drew a bead on Pt1?).

The dodge is a reaction, not a minor action, so he can draw his weapon. He is minus a round from the clip as he did fire, and missed.

Round 2

Pt1 uses a minor action to aim, and then fires. 5,4,+1(gun skill),+1 (aim)=11 (average success)
On his damage roll, he gets 5,2,2 (-3) to equal 6. This is the part where I get messed up. If the effect roll applies here, that would be an average failure. So does that mean that he did not apply any damage to Dt? Really confused on that.

Damage rolls is not modified by effect i believe. (If it was, it would be affected by the to hit roll, anyway). Here, the shot inflicts 6 pts of damage, 1 pt after the armour.


Thats my take on things. I agee it would take 2 rounds to move to personal range.

 

[Woas]

Page 65 under Damage heading:
Each weapon lists the damage it inflicts as a number of d6. Add the Effect of the attack roll to this damage.

From my understanding, the number for damage is just compared to the target's armor (which is subtracted and from your damage roll and assuming that is still above zero is applied as damage).
Like the Initiative roll, the higher - the better. But if you roll less than 7 for initiative, it doesn't mean you've 'failed' initiative. You do not have to meet or beat 7+ or "succeed" with damage rolls.


There is also the degrees of success chart based on the effect of a role on page 50. This could give a referee a good bases in the situation where a character attacks with a gun an is wondering if he actually fired a bullet or just couldn't get a shot off. If a character's attack roll has a -1 Effect (rolling a 6 and just missing the 7+ mark) I might give the character the "hesitated too long and never fired. Don't mark any ammo off," response. If the effect lower and thus a typical failure then I'd say a bullet was fired but a miss, mark off the appropriate ammo used.

 

[Infojunky]

There is also the degrees of success chart based on the effect of a role on page 50. This could give a referee a good bases in the situation where a character attacks with a gun an is wondering if he actually fired a bullet or just couldn't get a shot off. If a character's attack roll has a -1 Effect (rolling a 6 and just missing the 7+ mark) I might give the character the "hesitated too long and never fired. Don't mark any ammo off," response. If the effect lower and thus a typical failure then I'd say a bullet was fired but a miss, mark off the appropriate ammo used.

In my Games if the dice were thrown the shot was taken.

 

[apoc527]

Unless, I'm very much mistaken, in a situation where the attack roll is an 11 (Effect 3) and the damage roll is 6, the final damage is 9. Armor is then subtracted from this to get final damage. Correct?

 

[Elysianknight]

Unless, I'm very much mistaken, in a situation where the attack roll is an 11 (Effect 3) and the damage roll is 6, the final damage is 9. Armor is then subtracted from this to get final damage. Correct?

I certainly don't add effect to damage, but i'm at work, so can't check the rules to see if i have been doing it wrong.

 

[Stainless]

Unless, I'm very much mistaken, in a situation where the attack roll is an 11 (Effect 3) and the damage roll is 6, the final damage is 9. Armor is then subtracted from this to get final damage. Correct?

I certainly don't add effect to damage, but i'm at work, so can't check the rules to see if i have been doing it wrong.

As stated above by Woas, in the Core Rule Book, page 65, the first sentence of the "Damage" section;

"Each weapon lists the damage it inflicts as a number of d6. Add the
Effect of the attack roll to this damage."

 

[Elysianknight]

Unless, I'm very much mistaken, in a situation where the attack roll is an 11 (Effect 3) and the damage roll is 6, the final damage is 9. Armor is then subtracted from this to get final damage. Correct?

I certainly don't add effect to damage, but i'm at work, so can't check the rules to see if i have been doing it wrong.

As stated above by Woas, in the Core Rule Book, page 65, the first sentence of the "Damage" section;

"Each weapon lists the damage it inflicts as a number of d6. Add the
Effect of the attack roll to this damage."

oops....

 

[Othin]

Thanks for the clarification everyone, this is really helpful! I'm going to continue the scenario with the changes noted in bold. Outstanding questions will be underlined

Pt1-987765
Dt-88A886

Pt1 rolled a 12 for starting initiative (is there a bonus for his roll of a 6 and a 6?)

Dt rolled a 4

Round 1

Pt1 used his minor action to draw, and to fire. Dt announced that he was going to dodge. Pt1 rolled a 5,4 +1 (gun combat skill), +0 (Dexterity modifier), and -1 (Dts dodge) to equal 9 (Average success ((9-8=1)) )

On his damage rolls, he rolled a 6,6,1 (Body Pistol 3D6-3) +1 (from effect) of skill check) to end up giving 11 damage to Dt. Dt was wearing cloth armor (5 armor) which took the damage down to 6, so Dt has 4 remaining endurance. Pt1 now has 5 remaining shots in his pistol.

Dt used his minor action to draw and then fired. His roll was 4,1 +2 (gun combat skill), +0 (Dexterity modifier) -1 (because of his earlier dodge) to equal 6, which fails (average failure). Dt has 14 remaining shots in his clip.

Round 2

Pt1 uses a minor action to aim, and then fires. 5,4,+1(gun skill), +0 (Dexterity modifier), +1 (aim)=11 (average success, +3)
On his damage roll, he gets 5,2,2 (-3) +3 (effect) to equal 9. After subtracting for the cloth armor (5) that leaves Dt with 0 endurance points.

Dt also takes aim, and fires on burst. 5, 6, +2 (gun skill), +0 (Dexterity modifier), +1 (aim)=14 (Exceptional success +6)
On his damage roll he gets 5,3,3 (-3) +6 (effect) +4 (auto fire value for the autopistol) to equal 18. (On pg 66 of the core rulebook it says "a hit with effect 6+ always inflicts at least one point of damage, regardless of the target's armor" so would that take it up to 19 damage, or just ensure that even if Pt1 was wearing battle dress, at least one point of damage would be given?). Pt1 was wearing mesh armor (2), so damage was taken down to 16. Pt1 loses all his endurance points (7) and decides he wants the remaining damage to apply to his strength and he goes down to 0 on that as well. Because of the sheer power of the attack, Pt1 is knocked unconscious. ( On page 74 of the core rulebook it says that an unconscious character can make an endurance check after every minute of being unconscious. Does that apply to a character who is at 0 endurance?)

Wow, that effect added to damage can really turn things around!

 

[Woas]

1) I haven't seen anything in the rule book about 'critical' hits or misses (aka snake eyes or... are double 6's spider eyes? :wink. There is the Exceptional Success/Failure which comes from a 6+/- Effect, but that could occur without double 6s/1s an enough DMs.

2) Yes, from what I understand the 6+ attack role always does at least 1 damage rule is for those times when someone is behind cover or in a battle suit but you do so well that somehow despite the attack technically doing nothing (after armor) it still gives a token point of damage.

If memory serves, I think there was a thread about this... I believe the argument was whether people inside an armored an enclosed vehicle (like a grav tank or something) could still be hit even by a simple revolver. But perhaps I'm mistaken and misremembered what the topic of that thread was about.

3) Yes you make the Endurance checks even when at 0 Endurance. But don't forget the -3 DM for a 0 stat :wink:. Although it doesn't state it out right I get this answer from the next page, under Natural Healing where it describes cases where a character with a negative Endurance DM will get worse.

 

[Stainless]

Agreed, there is no special rule for rolling double 6 for initiative.

As an aside, you coould note that the recoil for the weapons used (body pistol and single shot from an auto pistol) are less than the respective character's Str DM so there is no modification to the next round's initiatives.

However, Dt dodged in the first round, thus he gets -2 to his Initiative in the next round and -1 to all skill checks. The -2 to his Initiative doesn't matter since he lost that from the initial rolls. But it makes Dts hit a 13 so the effect is reduced to +5.

In addition, Dt uses burst fire in round two, so his recoil is increased by 1. Now, the recoil is greater than his Str DM (0), so next round he gets a -1 to his Initiative (not that that is going to matter again).

I agree that the minium of 1 damage rule means just that, a minimum of 1 damage, not an addition of 1 damage. I would justify this as a knock from the bullet's impact (if in battle dress) or a splinter of wood/chip of stone hitting a character from a bullet's passage through covering material. Not as some sort of magical penetration of the bullet to the target.

Lastly, although neither character in this example is seriously wounded (at least one point from each of the three characteristics), once they are, they loose their minor action from combat (and can only crawl). (Page 75)

 

[Othin]

Thanks, this is really helpful. I totally forgot to take the recoil into account. One thing I don't understand though, is the dodging. You said...

However, Dt dodged in the first round, thus he gets -2 to his Initiative in the next round and -1 to all skill checks. The -2 to his Initiative doesn't matter since he lost that from the initial rolls. But it makes Dts hit a 13 so the effect is reduced to +5.

... but the book says this about dodge

A character who is being attacked may dodge, giving his attacker a -1DM and giving himself a -1DM on all skill checks until the next round.

... and this about reactions in general

Each reaction lowers Initiative by 2 and applies a -1 DM to all skill checks until the following round. There is no limit to how many times a character can react in a round but a character can only react once to each attack and the penalties from reacting are cumulative

I took that to mean that the -1 DM to skill checks would have only applied to the (in our example) first round of combat. Since Dt didn't dodge in the second round, he wasn't penalized.

Like you said though, since there were only two combatants, and the dodger had already rolled a lower initiative the hit to init didn't really matter in this case.

 

[Stainless]

Othin, thanks for pointing out that nuance. I will correct my combat flowchart immediately!

 

[Garuda]

Round 1

Pt1 used his minor action to draw, and to fire. Dt announced that he was going to dodge. Pt1 rolled a 5,4 +1 (gun combat skill), and -1 (Dts dodge) to equal 9 (Average success?)

Shouldn't that be Pt1 rolled a 5,4 +1 (gun combat skill) +? (Dexterity modifier), and -1 (Dts dodge) to equal X?

 

[Stainless]

Round 1

Pt1 used his minor action to draw, and to fire. Dt announced that he was going to dodge. Pt1 rolled a 5,4 +1 (gun combat skill), and -1 (Dts dodge) to equal 9 (Average success?)

Shouldn't that be Pt1 rolled a 5,4 +1 (gun combat skill) +? (Dexterity modifier), and -1 (Dts dodge) to equal X?

Yes indeed! Ah the details, the details! :shock:

Meelee attack; Melee (appropriate specialty) + Strength or Dexterity DM (attacker’s choice)

Shooting attack; Gun Combat (appropriate specialty) or Heavy Weapons (appropriate specialty) + Dexterity DM

Thrown attack; Athletics (co-ordination) + Dexterity DM

 

[Othin]

You're 100% correct. I should have notated it but got lazy and didn't since it was 0 (Dex DM modifier for Pt1 and Dt was 0 since both have 8 Dex). Leaving it out is pretty misleading, so I'm going to edit the posts to show it. Thank you!

Round 1

Pt1 used his minor action to draw, and to fire. Dt announced that he was going to dodge. Pt1 rolled a 5,4 +1 (gun combat skill), and -1 (Dts dodge) to equal 9 (Average success?)

Shouldn't that be Pt1 rolled a 5,4 +1 (gun combat skill) +? (Dexterity modifier), and -1 (Dts dodge) to equal X?