RuneQuest Rules Rumour Control

[Halfbat]

I guess that is true however Shield is a separate skill and it is generally a lot better than parrying with a weapon (due to the AP differences, most weapons are very low) so I guess most characters need to dedicate skill points to at least one defensive skill (i.e. Shield or Dodge).

Agreed. Characters who don't will be hopping around very quickly. Even parrying knives and the best swords only give 4AP - and if you're running greatsword against greatsword that's not going to go very far!

 

[atgxtg]

Since spears now suck at parrying is then a "fend" option in MRQ?. Realistically, a spear had certain asdvantages over other weapons, one of which was reach. But with a 2AP it's not going to stop much, or keep orr a boar.

Since the 1XAP result is going to be a lot more common that the 2xAP result, MRQ favors the attacker a lot more than RQ does.

 

[Rurik]

Since spears now suck at parrying is then a "fend" option in MRQ?. Realistically, a spear had certain asdvantages over other weapons, one of which was reach. But with a 2AP it's not going to stop much, or keep orr a boar.

Since the 1XAP result is going to be a lot more common that the 2xAP result, MRQ favors the attacker a lot more than RQ does.

There is a footnote for setting against a charge, which should cover the boar as well. You don't really parry a charging boar - either you skewer it as it charges or you have a very bad day.

While it is easy to see the logic of the new MRQ parrying a great axe with a knife, the new system is just as illogical with spear vs. spear - it is very easy to block a thrusting weapon completely compared to a swinging or chopping weapon (all you have to do is deflect it some, not block the full force of the thrust). A long spear vs a long spear is pretty useless in MRQ.

 

[Enpeze]

Since spears now suck at parrying is then a "fend" option in MRQ?. Realistically, a spear had certain asdvantages over other weapons, one of which was reach. But with a 2AP it's not going to stop much, or keep orr a boar.

Since the 1XAP result is going to be a lot more common that the 2xAP result, MRQ favors the attacker a lot more than RQ does.

I agree. There is an issue with some weapons. Also a quarterstaff is good for parrying. Maybe they include a special rule for such weapons. (I hope so)

So is that why they got rid of the parry skill. With most weapons stopping 3-4 points, you wind up with swords not doing a good job of stopping other swords. The problem is that mpst characters in RQ have a damage bonus. THis lets a strong character brush aside a weak parry, but it doen't allow a strong defernder to stop the same attack.

I like that there is no parry skill. There is none in other BRP incarnations and I had no use for since 10 years in my games. The new DBRP also has no explicit parry skill anymore.

The other issue is not so easy to solve. Sword against sword is in many cases simply no damage during parry. So the official rule seems not realistic to me. A solution could be to add the damage bonus of the defender to the blocking AP. In this case a strong character could block more damage than a weakling.

 

[atgxtg]

While it is easy to see the logic of the new MRQ parrying a great axe with a knife, the new system is just as illogical with spear vs. spear - it is very easy to block a thrusting weapon completely compared to a swinging or chopping weapon (all you have to do is deflect it some, not block the full force of the thrust). A long spear vs a long spear is pretty useless in MRQ.

Yes, since MRQ doesn't really have a parry per say. Likewise with rapier vs. rapier (where a shield actually gets in the way).

THe thing is, a real parry is not just sticking something in the path of the block to take the hit (that is a block). A parry actually invoves deflecting the blow, or even prempting the strike by making weapon contact. For example, someone with a dagger can parry a greatsword or greataxe by stepping in an making weapon contact "higher up" on the weapon, or even with the foe's arms, ofsetting the larger weapon;'s mass ansd size. That is why people canparry sword blows with bare hands.

Sure it isn't easy, but is is possible.

A failed shield parry stops more that a sucessful spear parry?

 

[Rurik]

I definately think I will end up allowing the defender to add damage bonus to AP when parrying.

 

[atgxtg]

I definately think I will end up allowing the defender to add damage bonus to AP when parrying.

I was thinking of that, too. Or maybe letting him subtract his db from the attacker's. Something like if the attacker is +1d4 and the defender is +1d2 the attacker gets to keep 1d2.

 

[Archer]

So is that why they got rid of the parry skill. With most weapons stopping 3-4 points, you wind up with swords not doing a good job of stopping other swords. The problem is that mpst characters in RQ have a damage bonus. THis lets a strong character brush aside a weak parry, but it doen't allow a strong defernder to stop the same attack.

That is why I had the idea of removing the Parry AP and Parry APx2 results. Replace them with a suitable die (was thinking like a d8 ) + AP to deduct from damage, then you get a variable amount of damage parried.

Another idea I had was this;
> You parry AP points of damage + 1 point per 10 (just count tens) you rolled below your %.

This means that if a warrior parries with a weapon that has 3 AP, and he has a 65% skill, and rolls a result of 28 on his parry roll, he parries 7 points total of damage.

 

[Mikko Leho]

That is why I had the idea of removing the Parry AP and Parry APx2 results. Replace them with a suitable die (was thinking like a d8 ) + AP to deduct from damage, then you get a variable amount of damage parried.

Two inexperienced trolls would still be bashing through each others defences. I like what I am hearing about adding damage modifier to AP.

 

[Rurik]

That is why I had the idea of removing the Parry AP and Parry APx2 results. Replace them with a suitable die (was thinking like a d8 ) + AP to deduct from damage, then you get a variable amount of damage parried.

Two inexperienced trolls would still be bashing through each others defences. I like what I am hearing about adding damage modifier to AP.

The only problem I have with Archers method is that it is a bit math intensive. The math is not that hard, but has to be done on every single roll. Two inexperienced trolls bashing eachother doesn't bother me - they don't know what they are doing anyway.

 

[Archer]

That is why I had the idea of removing the Parry AP and Parry APx2 results. Replace them with a suitable die (was thinking like a d8 ) + AP to deduct from damage, then you get a variable amount of damage parried.

Two inexperienced trolls would still be bashing through each others defences. I like what I am hearing about adding damage modifier to AP.

The only problem I have with Archers method is that it is a bit math intensive. The math is not that hard, but has to be done on every single roll. Two inexperienced trolls bashing eachother doesn't bother me - they don't know what they are doing anyway.

Ok, lets revise that idea then.

> On a parry you reduce damage by AP + a modifier that is calculated as this; If the roll is a success, you take the 10's result (ignoring the ones) and convert to a single digit modifier. For example 20 becoming two.

Example; A fighter Skill 65% with a AP3 weapon rolls 43 on his parry roll. He then blocks 3+4=7 points.

And if we want we can even make this to work with 100+%. For each 10% above 100% the parrying character has in his skill, a successful parry reduce damage by an additional point. That means a character with a 120% skill and an AP 3 weapon would block a minimum of AP 5 + modified he gets from his successful roll.

 

[Rurik]

Ok, lets revise that idea then.

> On a parry you reduce damage by AP + a modifier that is calculated as this; If the roll is a success, you take the 10's result (ignoring the ones) and convert to a single digit modifier. For example 20 becoming two.

Example; A fighter Skill 65% with a AP3 weapon rolls 43 on his parry roll. He then blocks 3+4=7 points.

And if we want we can even make this to work with 100+%. For each 10% above 100% the parrying character has in his skill, a successful parry reduce damage by an additional point. That means a character with a 120% skill and an AP 3 weapon would block a minimum of AP 5 + modified he gets from his successful roll.

I like that much better!

 

[Archer]

Ok, lets revise that idea then.

> On a parry you reduce damage by AP + a modifier that is calculated as this; If the roll is a success, you take the 10's result (ignoring the ones) and convert to a single digit modifier. For example 20 becoming two.

Example; A fighter Skill 65% with a AP3 weapon rolls 43 on his parry roll. He then blocks 3+4=7 points.

And if we want we can even make this to work with 100+%. For each 10% above 100% the parrying character has in his skill, a successful parry reduce damage by an additional point. That means a character with a 120% skill and an AP 3 weapon would block a minimum of AP 5 + modified he gets from his successful roll.

I like that much better!

Glad to hear that.
It follows a principle for counting success in my own homebrew system (which will not be finished now that MRQ is available).

A similar mechanic could have been used for damage as well, which would have allowed more experienced characters to deal more damage. But then you had to replace the damage dice with a damage modifier insted.

 

[Archer]

Ops! double post.

 

[atgxtg]

I agree. There is an issue with some weapons. Also a quarterstaff is good for parrying. Maybe they include a special rule for such weapons. (I hope so)

Np argument there. THe sgtaff might be the best parring werapon after the shield. Then again so is the sword-especially the shortsword.

So is that why they got rid of the parry skill. With most weapons stopping 3-4 points, you wind up with swords not doing a good job of stopping other swords. The problem is that mpst characters in RQ have a damage bonus. THis lets a strong character brush aside a weak parry, but it doen't allow a strong defernder to stop the same attack.

I like that there is no parry skill. There is none in other BRP incarnations and I had no use for since 10 years in my games. The new DBRP also has no explicit parry skill anymore.

Au contraire,. Attack & PArry were separate skills in all BRP incarnation until the "elric" edtion of Stormbringer. Prior to that every BRP prodcut had it.

The other issue is not so easy to solve. Sword against sword is in many cases simply no damage during parry. So the official rule seems not realistic to me.

After readin Matt's clairifcations, and seeing that he intended for dodge to be suprior to parrying, I can only accpet that this is what he wanted. RQ has now become like D&D with a successful attack roll resulting in damage. I don't agree with it. The is a big difference between blocking and parrying, just not in MRQ.

A solution could be to add the damage bonus of the defender to the blocking AP. In this case a strong character could block more damage than a weakling.

I know. I suggested that a few posts back. Personally, I don't see a reason to bother. Just take out RQ3 Weapon AP ratings. Desipite all the moaning about people in RQ3 parrying greatswords with daggers, anyone who has tried stopping a 2D8+1D4 attack with a 6AP weapon has game experience to the contrary.

 

[atgxtg]

[
That is why I had the idea of removing the Parry AP and Parry APx2 results. Replace them with a suitable die (was thinking like a d8 ) + AP to deduct from damage, then you get a variable amount of damage parried.

Another idea I had was this;
> You parry AP points of damage + 1 point per 10 (just count tens) you rolled below your %.

This means that if a warrior parries with a weapon that has 3 AP, and he has a 65% skill, and rolls a result of 28 on his parry roll, he parries 7 points total of damage.

THe thing is that your defense is less based upon your skill and ability and more on your equpment. Most of the time, an incompent lunkhead, with Shield 05% carrying a big shield gets a better defense that Rusk Runerapier with Rapier 150%.

How about your parry AP =1/20th of your skill, with a modifer from weapons (Say weapon AP-5)?

 

[Archer]

THe thing is that your defense is less based upon your skill and ability and more on your equpment. Most of the time, an incompent lunkhead, with Shield 05% carrying a big shield gets a better defense that Rusk Runerapier with Rapier 150%.

How about your parry AP =1/20th of your skill, with a modifer from weapons (Say weapon AP-5)?

Don't know if you missed my post with the revised version, which takes into account of skill (more than anything else), even though equipment plays a part in it all (as it should to a certain degree).

> Base amount you parry is weapons AP.

> When you make a Successful Parry Roll, the 10's are converted to 1's. So a character with 50% skill that rolls 40% gets a 4. This is added to the base amount you parry. Weapons AP + 4. For an AP 3 weapon this would be a total of 7 AP.

> For each 10% you have above 100% in skill, you automatically block 1 additional point. So your character with 150% skill would have +5 AP bonus, before he even rolls.

Now, an example;

> Character with 150% Skill, Weapon that as 3 AP.

> He rolls to parry, and succeeds, rolling 86. Which becomes 8 points.

> Total amount of damage blocked; Weapon AP3 + 5 (because he has 50% over 100%) + 8 from his parry roll, for a total of AP 16.
That is a lot of damage he blocks. Probably enough to ignore the damage by a blow from a troll with a twohanded mace.

You still think it is a bad solution?

However, I still think your idea is a very good one. 1/20 of your % + Weapon AP gives you a permanent AP value, which is faster to use than the variable I suggested.

A character with 120% would parry 11 + weapon AP of damage.

This is a solution my players probably would prefer. It has the advantage of speed.

My solution has the advantage that how much damage you parry are partially variable, and allows for a bit more exitement when you roll your parry roll, to see if you are able to survive the onslaught of a troll with a great club. But it is not nearly as fast.