[Rumor] Conan 2nd Ed to use Runequest system?

[High Lord Dee]

One synergetic effect if conan changes to MRQ could be the fact that Chaosiums Call of Chtulhu rule system is similar to RQ. So one can take material like monsters or spells out of their CoC books and easily convert it to MRQ Conan.

:roll: Nice effect but still not nearly enough to scrap the huge investment that some of us have made into the d20 Conan game. The more I think about this, the more concerned I become. I have EVERY Mongoose Conan product that they have published. Most likely, I will continue to purchase the new material if the quality remains consistant with the previous material. I also have spent a vast amount of time creating my own NPC's to the d20 system along with playing the game. The game does not need a rule overhaul (I admit that it is becoming a bit fragmented from a materials standpoint but that is another topic). So unless the license gets yanked, please leave it be.

Here is something to ponder for those of you who are questioning the profitability of the line and we are not sure how Mongoose is doing:

If Rune Quest is the answer....than why did they go belly up in the first place? Could it be a lack of gamers willing to spend money for the product? Probably.

I could see perhaps a totally new system geared toward the workings of REH to break away from the WOTC monstrocity but not to a failed game system. If you are going that route, I would rather bring back the old TSR Conan game system (yes Dunder, I admit it! ). At least that was created specifically for Conan and was quite playable.

FINAL WARNING: DON"T DO IT! :evil:

HLD

 

[RMS]

Here is something to ponder for those of you who are questioning the profitability of the line and we are not sure how Mongoose is doing:

If Rune Quest is the answer....than why did they go belly up in the first place? Could it be a lack of gamers willing to spend money for the product? Probably.

It might be wise to educate yourself a bit before thowing a troll out there like that. RQ was extremely successful at one point: second only to AD&D. It went under when the company who owned the rights to it went under (Avalon Hill). Like most products in small markets, such as RPGs, it's failure was driven almost entirely by poor business decisions and had nothing to do with the actual product itself. You will note that many of the descendents of RQ have survived very well over the years, and have not needed major overhauls (like AD&D/D&D).

Aside: while the game was good and the Glorantha material was good, it was not helped by the fact that several of the support products were very lackluster, all of the products were priced way out of the range of RPGs (in the range of war games at the time), and communication issues between the two companies owning rights to RQ/Glorantha resulted in an extremely slow release schedule for a decade.

 

[Darrin Kelley]

One synergetic effect if conan changes to MRQ could be the fact that Chaosiums Call of Chtulhu rule system is similar to RQ. So one can take material like monsters or spells out of their CoC books and easily convert it to MRQ Conan.

You can already do that with Cthulhu D20. It's completely easy.

I have the Cthulhu D20 GM's Pack also. It gives extended advice on converting characters and critters over from BRP.

And it was always my intention to use the two games in concert from the outset.

Imagine alternating weeks. Conan and Cthulhu. While porting a little of each aspects of each campaign over into the other. Hidden links. I know a lot of players who would get a great kick out of that.

 

[Darrin Kelley]

It might be wise to educate yourself a bit before thowing a troll out there like that. RQ was extremely successful at one point: second only to AD&D. It went under when the company who owned the rights to it went under (Avalon Hill). Like most products in small markets, such as RPGs, it's failure was driven almost entirely by poor business decisions and had nothing to do with the actual product itself. You will note that many of the descendents of RQ have survived very well over the years, and have not needed major overhauls (like AD&D/D&D).

Aside: while the game was good and the Glorantha material was good, it was not helped by the fact that several of the support products were very lackluster, all of the products were priced way out of the range of RPGs (in the range of war games at the time), and communication issues between the two companies owning rights to RQ/Glorantha resulted in an extremely slow release schedule for a decade.

Stormbringer and CoC? Yes, they did survive on their own and did well commercially. The fact that they are two very large literary licenses with a big following definitely had a lot to do with that survival. And Chaosium went where the money was.

Runequest didn't sell anywhere nearly as well as either of those games did for Chaosium. So Runequest and Superworld got the axe by Chaosium. Even though they had a respectable following. Bu6t those followings were not respectable enough to make them viable for Chaosium to continue with them.

 

[jadrax]

One synergetic effect if conan changes to MRQ could be the fact that Chaosiums Call of Chtulhu rule system is similar to RQ. So one can take material like monsters or spells out of their CoC books and easily convert it to MRQ Conan.

You can do that already with D20 CoC though. (And my GM does.)

 

[Enpeze]

You can do that already with D20 CoC though. (And my GM does.)

Thats right. Good idea from your Gm.

But of course Chaosium released a lot more background material which uses the BRP system than d20 CoC. And the most of it is excellent.

 

[AikiGhost]

One synergetic effect if conan changes to MRQ could be the fact that Chaosiums Call of Chtulhu rule system is similar to RQ. So one can take material like monsters or spells out of their CoC books and easily convert it to MRQ Conan.

Aha! Now I understand. This is all just a grand conspiracy to re-unite HP Lovecraft and Robert E Howard beyond the grave!

That is an interetsing and quite usefull point, suddenly I can start throwing star spawn, Byakhee and Chthonians at my players

 

[Enpeze]

Nice effect but still not nearly enough to scrap the huge investment that some of us have made into the d20 Conan game.

The most pages of the material you purchased will be valid. Just because a system change the 2 great city books or the road of the kings etc. will not dissappear. Just the parts with the d20 stats in it will not be usable anymore. At least for me its not a reason not to use these indispensable books. So I would not call this "scrapping the investment".

The more I think about this, the more concerned I become. I have EVERY Mongoose Conan product that they have published. Most likely, I will continue to purchase the new material if the quality remains consistant with the previous material. I also have spent a vast amount of time creating my own NPC's to the d20 system along with playing the game. The game does not need a rule overhaul (I admit that it is becoming a bit fragmented from a materials standpoint but that is another topic).

You can continue to play the new material with d20. Just convert it. But you should give Mongooses RQ at least a try. Maybe you will never come back to d20.

If Rune Quest is the answer....than why did they go belly up in the first place? Could it be a lack of gamers willing to spend money for the product? Probably.

It goes belly up because of a fundamental marketing problem and because AH refused to sell the license to more compentent companies. Before this it was No2 on the market after D&D.

 

[Turloigh]

Runequest didn't sell anywhere nearly as well as either of those games did for Chaosium. So Runequest and Superworld got the axe by Chaosium. Even though they had a respectable following. Bu6t those followings were not respectable enough to make them viable for Chaosium to continue with them.

That's not how I heard it (although you are probably right about Superworld).

AFAIK, Chaosium was unable to do anything with RuneQuest because Avalon Hill owned the name. I'm sure they wanted to, but couldn't. RQ4 was scrapped for reasons unrelated to the game itself.

 

[Sven]

One synergetic effect if conan changes to MRQ could be the fact that Chaosiums Call of Chtulhu rule system is similar to RQ. So one can take material like monsters or spells out of their CoC books and easily convert it to MRQ Conan.

Aha! Now I understand. This is all just a grand conspiracy to re-unite HP Lovecraft and Robert E Howard beyond the grave!

Yep.

What a blasphemous idea!

Mmh, I like it. :twisted:

 

[Padre]

You can continue to play the new material with d20. Just convert it. But you should give Mongooses RQ at least a try. Maybe you will never come back to d20.

It makes more sense to let RQ fans convert Conan to RQ either on their own or using some kind of official document. Supporters of the current line shouldn't be forced to convert anything.

 

[High Lord Dee]

The more I think about this, the more concerned I become. I have EVERY Mongoose Conan product that they have published. Most likely, I will continue to purchase the new material if the quality remains consistant with the previous material. I also have spent a vast amount of time creating my own NPC's to the d20 system along with playing the game. The game does not need a rule overhaul (I admit that it is becoming a bit fragmented from a materials standpoint but that is another topic).

You can continue to play the new material with d20. Just convert it. But you should give Mongooses RQ at least a try. Maybe you will never come back to d20.[/quote]

For the record, I play in other d20 settings and have absolutely NO issues with the d20 system. In fact, I find it to be the most well thought out and expandable system to date. I have played many others (Rolemaster, Twighlight 2000, D&D, AD&D, Marvel RPG, DC RPG, TSR Conan RPG, etc.)
and have never seen a system with as much material that can allow you to play a campaign in virtually any setting without needing to research and create your own rules. It allows a GM to focus on the storytelling and role playing instead of trying to figure out how to make up your own game mechanics. You can use as much third party material or stick with the core book and you will be fine.

No thanks on the conversions. I have far too much good material to run the d20 Conan setting for quite some time. Mongoose will simply loose my business. Conan d20 will survive in our group.

With that being said, I would be happy to review RQ when it comes out but, like many other interesting game systems, I truly have no motivation to play it. d20 works...period. If you do not agree, than most likely you have not taken the time to actually play it. There are plenty of arguments out there surrounding the differences between the various systems (the primary one being level based versus non-level based) and that discussion is best for another thread.

Sorry for the attitude but I am seriously pissed off by Mongoose even toying with the idea of a radical change to one of the best written and thought through game systems.

HLD

 

[Sutek]

I would go a step further by saying that d20 is THE SYSTEM right now, and changing to a new one is just stupid. "What if D&D 4.0 is totally different?" is bollocks. How different could it possibly be? Wizards isn't dumb enough to dump the d20 system and reformat everything. Besides, it's D&D for crying out loud! The system works fine and it makes for a great Conan game, so don't fix what ain't broke. Let D&D 4 be totally different - why does a Mongoose's product have to change to fit thier mold, particularly when Mongoose has done it better than them already.

Never mind the innane idea of mirroring the competitor's notion to "upgrade" every five years and sell more of thier product. What about the customer base that's been created for Conan D20? We get told "too bad, hope you get into the new thing" and RQ is the only source of new info and game material I have? Appaling. I said the exact same thing when AEG lost the SG1 liscence and said that they'd be releasing Spycraft 2.0 anyway soon. I said "Fight for the liscence and stop trying to make my by a differnt system I don't want just to stay current." They said that I didnt' understand - that, sure, there'd be conversions for Spycraft 2.0 versions of jaffa and zats and all that, but no more support for the previous system because they didn't have rights to it anymore. My further argument was that that was just more marketting of Spycraft 2.0 and less "we're still offering support material" because not having the liscence should mean not being able to do anything with the property. In the end, they are the company (just like Mongoose) and decided to cease support of the product based on spurious claims and a shift in what they considered to be the better/new system anyway.

Don't even get me started again on how much money I've spent and how hard it's been to get my local game stores to order the stuff or keep it in stock. What they get in sells instantly and then ordering more results the same. Demand is higher than supply. Seems great, right? Well, now, if this switch to RQ base system is true, all those people who bought all that stuff so regularly are just going to have to take a economic kick to the crotch and either drop hundreds of dollars again or stick to the d20 version and accept that it'll be unsuported.

Mongoose says: Sorry. get over it.

I've remained SUPER loyal to this company and this line and I'm sure there are others out there that feel the same as me; that as as irate as I am over this "rumor".

I postulate this: The RQ system emulates more closely the progression, vocabulary and "feel" as the on-line game that is about to be released and that's the impetus for a probably switch. It has nothing to do with what's a good game system, and everything to do with some big money deal to mirror Age of Conan.

:evil: :roll:

 

[Bregales]

Sorry for the attitude but I am seriously pissed off by Mongoose even toying with the idea of a radical change to one of the best written and thought through game systems.

HLD

I'm still confused about this thread. Because I haven't seen any response from Matthew or any of the Mongoose people to either refute or confirm this rumor, for at this point that's all it is. [edit]Oh, I see this quote from the RQ forum (an 11 page thread is long to sift through! :shock: )

To add to that, no firm decision about Conan has been made at all yet. However, one way or another, we'll see you right

Well, as has been said, Mongoose has tried very hard to work with their customer base, more than other game companies IMO, and while they've made many mistakes at least in their Conan product line they have at least made attempts to rectify the situation. I agree with those who have posted their favor for the current d20 line considering our investment in time and money. But I won't curse Mongoose or quit the forums or bad mouth them before they've even made an actual announcement one way or the other.

Earlier in this thread tofu posted this link: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/runequest.php
which a/o this post has the following text on it's page:

Mongoose Publishing is proud to announce that the legendary RuneQuest roleplaying game will be added to our growing number of licensed publications in mid-2006. Building on the previous editions of the game, the all new RuneQuest system has been developed under the watchful eyes of Mr Stafford, and has been subjected to the longest and most open playtesting period that any Mongoose game has been through. Writers for the new rules and its supplements include Ken Hite and Robin D. Laws.

The new RuneQuest rules will be released as a 100-page hardback book, priced at $19.95, giving players all the core rules they need to begin playing – indeed, with the monsters included in this book, Games Masters can go a long with this single tome.

Support for the new RuneQuest will come thick and fast throughout 2006 with the addition of the RuneQuest Companion, RuneQuest Monsters, Legendary Heroes, the Glorantha range and an all new setting that uses the core rules. RuneQuest comes of age with this edition, being truly mutable to any fantasy setting desired by the Games Master and players.

Glorantha

As before, Glorantha is the flagship of the RuneQuest range and our full colour setting book will place Games Masters and players alike straight into this world, allowing them to visualise the places they visit as no world book has yet done. No settlement will feel like ‘just another town’ in Glorantha.

In addition, there are plenty of follow up books planned to supplement Glorantha, including expansions on the many Cults, methods of manipulating Runes and magic, as well as true Quests which will see the players travelling the length and breadth of the land in a search for ultimate power or salvation.

All of this will be backed up by a huge amount of adventure support, allowing you to dive straight into the world.

A Truly Open Game

Perhaps the best news of all is that RuneQuest will be an Open system, meaning that publishers and players alike will be free to produce their own derivative works, using the RuneQuest rules and logo, for publication. Though Glorantha will not be Open in this fashion, the free-to-use licence will permit new settings to be written using the RuneQuest rules, as well as scenarios and rules expansions.

More details on the Open nature of RuneQuest will be released towards the end of this year, along with details on how existing publishers (paper or PDF) can get their hands on a copy of the RuneQuest Development Kit.

This way, if the page changes in the future, this will reflect the statement made a/o this post. For now, I'll just wait and see (whether Mongoose is viewing the voices before making a decision, or otherwise).

 

[Taharqa]

Another reason of a possible change could be that they want to establish MRQ as their own "house system" beside d20 for diversification.

This theory has been batted around a bit, but it seems to me that MRQ would be an odd choice for a "house system" because it is not a "universal" system, but rather is geared toward the fantasy genre. Since Chaosiom still retains the rights to the BRP, RQ is kind of boxed in as a house system.

 

[High Lord Dee]

I would go a step further by saying that d20 is THE SYSTEM right now, and changing to a new one is just stupid. "What if D&D 4.0 is totally different?" is bollocks. How different could it possibly be? Wizards isn't dumb enough to dump the d20 system and reformat everything. Besides, it's D&D for crying out loud! The system works fine and it makes for a great Conan game, so don't fix what ain't broke. Let D&D 4 be totally different - why does a Mongoose's product have to change to fit thier mold, particularly when Mongoose has done it better than them already.

Never mind the innane idea of mirroring the competitor's notion to "upgrade" every five years and sell more of thier product. What about the customer base that's been created for Conan D20? We get told "too bad, hope you get into the new thing" and RQ is the only source of new info and game material I have? Appaling. I said the exact same thing when AEG lost the SG1 liscence and said that they'd be releasing Spycraft 2.0 anyway soon. I said "Fight for the liscence and stop trying to make my by a differnt system I don't want just to stay current." They said that I didnt' understand - that, sure, there'd be conversions for Spycraft 2.0 versions of jaffa and zats and all that, but no more support for the previous system because they didn't have rights to it anymore. My further argument was that that was just more marketting of Spycraft 2.0 and less "we're still offering support material" because not having the liscence should mean not being able to do anything with the property. In the end, they are the company (just like Mongoose) and decided to cease support of the product based on spurious claims and a shift in what they considered to be the better/new system anyway.

Don't even get me started again on how much money I've spent and how hard it's been to get my local game stores to order the stuff or keep it in stock. What they get in sells instantly and then ordering more results the same. Demand is higher than supply. Seems great, right? Well, now, if this switch to RQ base system is true, all those people who bought all that stuff so regularly are just going to have to take a economic kick to the crotch and either drop hundreds of dollars again or stick to the d20 version and accept that it'll be unsuported.

Mongoose says: Sorry. get over it.

I've remained SUPER loyal to this company and this line and I'm sure there are others out there that feel the same as me; that as as irate as I am over this "rumor".

I postulate this: The RQ system emulates more closely the progression, vocabulary and "feel" as the on-line game that is about to be released and that's the impetus for a probably switch. It has nothing to do with what's a good game system, and everything to do with some big money deal to mirror Age of Conan.

:evil: :roll:

Great Summary. Nuff Said.

 

[High Lord Dee]

You can continue to play the new material with d20. Just convert it. But you should give Mongooses RQ at least a try. Maybe you will never come back to d20.

It makes more sense to let RQ fans convert Conan to RQ either on their own or using some kind of official document. Supporters of the current line shouldn't be forced to convert anything.

Brilliant. I like it.

HLD

 

[Enpeze]

This theory has been batted around a bit, but it seems to me that MRQ would be an odd choice for a "house system" because it is not a "universal" system, but rather is geared toward the fantasy genre. Since Chaosiom still retains the rights to the BRP, RQ is kind of boxed in as a house system.

this is correct. but only at the moment. BRP has a great non-fantasy tradition too. Just think of Ringworld, Nephilim or Call of Chtulhu. Its so flexible that its easy to convert it to modern settings. So if Mongoose decides to use it as "house system" we will see a modern version in no time. (provided MRQ is selling well, that is)

 

[Turloigh]

For the record, I play in other d20 settings and have absolutely NO issues with the d20 system. (snip) It allows a GM to focus on the storytelling and role playing instead of trying to figure out how to make up your own game mechanics.

:shock: That's the first time ever I hear that particular statement. (Of course, I don't agree at all). From what I've seen, the system hinders storytelling in many unnecessary ways.

No thanks on the conversions. I have far too much good material to run the d20 Conan setting for quite some time. Mongoose will simply loose my business. Conan d20 will survive in our group.

And that's how it should be. If d20/OGL works for you, then nobody should try to force you.

d20 works...period. If you do not agree, than most likely you have not taken the time to actually play it.

You might be jumping to conclusions. I own the rulebooks, and have played two D&D campaigns and a little OGL Conan. I think I hate it for a reason. (Dang, I didn't want to say that. You tricked me into it... )

 

[Enpeze]

Turloigh - You might be jumping to conclusions. I own the rulebooks, and have played two D&D campaigns and a little OGL Conan. I think I hate it for a reason.

I would not use the word "hate". I would rather use the terms "unrealistic", "rule-heavy" and "cumbersome". But its difficult for me to "hate" any RPG rules even if D&D. They represent a RPG just in a way I do not prefer for my games. My way to do combat in RPGs is fast and furious, with alot of realism. I never use tables or look in the rule book during a game. My players moan because its very deadly for all participants but in secret they love my interpretion of combat situations, because of the adrenaline, I suppose.

Additionally I think the D&D rules are quite useable in computer RPGs like Baldurs Gate or Neverwinter Night which I enjoyed very much. Hell, I read even some Forgotten Realms material for NWN as background. NWN2 uses D&D rules too, btw.