Rules Clarification: Agent Programs (CSCp69)

[ResslynHalvik]

Cool. That's a model that works for me. And I imagine my NT referee won't want to be down in the weeds enough to care

 

[ResslynHalvik]

All I need to do now is find rules for adding a GNSS (GPS, GLONASS, BeiDou, Galileo, etc) receiver module and software to a portable computer. Maybe by TL8 the cost and weight are negligible, and the software is either /0 or /1, granting a +1 or +2 DM to Navigation checks?

I see that the CSC (p128) says under the Navigation Toolkit:

By TL8 such tools are generally abandoned on civilised worlds, replaced by local or global positioning networks

although it might be good to temper that by law level/government type to see if public access is allowed, or what granularity is permitted to non-military users

 

[mavikfelna]

All I need to do now is find rules for adding a GNSS (GPS, GLONASS, BeiDou, Galileo, etc) receiver module and software to a portable computer. Maybe by TL8 the cost and weight are negligible, and the software is either /0 or /1, granting a +1 or +2 DM to Navigation checks?

I see that the CSC (p128) says under the Navigation Toolkit:


although it might be good to temper that by law level/government type to see if public access is allowed, or what granularity is permitted to non-military users

This would be an Expert: Navigation program probably.

 

[ResslynHalvik]

This would be an Expert: Navigation program probably.

I started there, but my TL-7/8 mobile phone manages it, and it came for free with the phone. (And even at TL-8 my phone wouldn't be able to run any Expert software).

If it needs Expert/1 Navigation, to get a satnav-enabled device at TL-8 you would need, I think:


So that's a 2kg (4.5lb) device costing Cr 2900, which seems ... excessive

 

[Limpin Legin]

Where can I find Admin (Computer Literacy) and either Electronics (Informatics) or Science (Informatics) defined?
I've searched through CRB, Companion and such copies of JTAS as I have, but no joy.

Thanks for asking except I'm not entirely sure what you missed here. IMTU or IYTU you can just make your own skills up and add them to the list. Writing up a JTAS article on new skills would be another way. ... That way new skills can get playtested, and possibly included in the official publications of the future.

If you prefer matters to be more RAW or "Official", then Travellers Companion page 43 says this about the matter:

The specialities listed in the Traveller Core Rulebook are not the only ones possible.

Have I answered the question satisfactorily?

 

[ResslynHalvik]

Ah, they're IYTU local additions? That explains why I can't find them! And it means that the answer to @ProfGrizzlyJon's "I am surprised no one has brought up the Informatics skill" is that no-one knew he had invented it!

 

[Vormaerin]

Well, not exactly. But it is from the Mindjammer setting book for Traveller. Or, at least, that's where I encountered it. It is a setting specific replacement for the Computer specialization, because Mindjammer has a much more advanced technological basis than core Traveller.

 

[MasterGwydion]

You think I am misreading this? Genuine question, in case my annoying ND brain is putting this across in a way that sounds confrontational

I often have this problem. It is frustrating. You are doing better than I normally do.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

Ah, they're IYTU local additions? That explains why I can't find them! And it means that the answer to @ProfGrizzlyJon's "I am surprised no one has brought up the Informatics skill" is that no-one knew he had invented it!

No, it also came from 2300AD.
I wouldn't toss that kind of red herring out there,

Page 107,
New Skills
Informatics
This is the skill used to search databases and run networkbased search inquiries. Informatics can be taken in place of the Computer skill, in all careers.
And Mindjammer:

 

[ResslynHalvik]

No, it also came from 2300AD.
I wouldn't toss that kind of red herring out there,
View attachment 6156
Page 107,
New Skills
Informatics
This is the skill used to search databases and run networkbased search inquiries. Informatics can be taken in place of the Computer skill, in all careers.
And Mindjammer:

Ah, gotcha. Apologies - having just come back to Traveller after a 40+ year gap, I forget there are other versions!

 

[swordtart]

I started there, but my TL-7/8 mobile phone manages it, and it came for free with the phone. (And even at TL-8 my phone wouldn't be able to run any Expert software).

If it needs Expert/1 Navigation, to get a satnav-enabled device at TL-8 you would need, I think:
View attachment 6154

So that's a 2kg (4.5lb) device costing Cr 2900, which seems ... excessive

I would have said that GPS or at worst cell-net location is a default function of the short range radio system. A map of the world is just a database and with infinite storage can have resolution down to street level. Something common might be Cr10 (or even free) and be able to put your position down to 10's of metres (circumstances permitting). You will need a new map for each planet and planets with low TL<8 won't have GPS to link to and might not even have electronic maps. Some areas of the planet may not be mapped (particularly unpopulated areas and oceans) and some maps will be out of date. Some governments may have a two tier GPS system (civilian/military) or can shut it off or encrypt it. These are just opportunities for the referee to let you get lost if it is critical to the plot.

GPS will tell you where you are but the resolution may not be ideal (global being a relative term with GPS system). Expert Navigation software will tell you how to get where you need to go and will be able to generate maps as you go and will probably be able to use stars, local features, magnetic variance or even weather patterns etc. to locate you in lieu of GPS signal.

 

[ResslynHalvik]

Yep yep. I discussed it a bit with our referee and that's pretty much what we agreed. I think where we got to was...

• Most TL8 or above planets have a GNSS constellation
• Public access to it, and the granularity of positioning for the public/visitors, will depend on government type and law level
• While an accessible GNSS will provide positioning data and direction information, mapping data may be patchy or of variable quality or not up to date
• There may be variable availability of the quality of the service between different classes of users (government/military, residents, visitors, ...)
• Depending on the government type, law level and starport class, mapping data will probably be made available to an arriving ship
• Travellers' devices will download mapping data from the ship's computer
• From TL8 onwards, general purpose portable computing/communications devices can be assumed to have a GNSS receiver and some mapping software that works with it, built-in at no additional cost or weight.
• The 3I, ZC and other polities will have different systems. While these will follow the same principles they may or may not interoperate, and interoperability may be disabled at certain times.

I did though note that the CSC talks about inertial locators as well, suggesting that from higher TLs they can replace satellite navigation.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Yep yep. I discussed it a bit with our referee and that's pretty much what we agreed. I think where we got to was...

• Most TL8 or above planets have a GNSS constellation
• Public access to it, and the granularity of positioning for the public/visitors, will depend on government type and law level
• While an accessible GNSS will provide positioning data and direction information, mapping data may be patchy or of variable quality or not up to date
• There may be variable availability of the quality of the service between different classes of users (government/military, residents, visitors, ...)
• Depending on the government type, law level and starport class, mapping data will probably be made available to an arriving ship
• Travellers' devices will download mapping data from the ship's computer
• From TL8 onwards, general purpose portable computing/communications devices can be assumed to have a GNSS receiver and some mapping software that works with it, built-in at no additional cost or weight.
• The 3I, ZC and other polities will have different systems. While these will follow the same principles they may or may not interoperate, and interoperability may be disabled at certain times.

I did phone note that the CSC talks about inertial locators as well, suggesting that from higher TLs they can replace satellite navigation.

Remember that inertial navigation keeps track of movement from a starting point. You'd know how far you've gone and the twists and turns you've taken, but maybe not much else.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

I would have said that GPS or at worst cell-net location is a default function of the short range radio system. A map of the world is just a database and with infinite storage can have resolution down to street level. Something common might be Cr10 (or even free) and be able to put your position down to 10's of metres (circumstances permitting). You will need a new map for each planet and planets with low TL<8 won't have GPS to link to and might not even have electronic maps. Some areas of the planet may not be mapped (particularly unpopulated areas and oceans) and some maps will be out of date. Some governments may have a two tier GPS system (civilian/military) or can shut it off or encrypt it. These are just opportunities for the referee to let you get lost if it is critical to the plot.

GPS will tell you where you are but the resolution may not be ideal (global being a relative term with GPS system). Expert Navigation software will tell you how to get where you need to go and will be able to generate maps as you go and will probably be able to use stars, local features, magnetic variance or even weather patterns etc. to locate you in lieu of GPS signal.

I started there, but my TL-7/8 mobile phone manages it, and it came for free with the phone. (And even at TL-8 my phone wouldn't be able to run any Expert software).

If it needs Expert/1 Navigation, to get a satnav-enabled device at TL-8 you would need, I think:
View attachment 6154

So that's a 2kg (4.5lb) device costing Cr 2900, which seems ... excessive

Or, you could have an expensive Mobile Comm case like this one that weighs 0 kg (and also gives you night vision to see the stars):

 

[ResslynHalvik]

That's a very interesting idea. Since I've actually been playing I've not had much time in my old passion of designing robots

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

Or, you could have an expensive Mobile Comm case like this one that weighs 0 kg (and also gives you night vision to see the stars):
View attachment 6171

Considering that Navigate by GPS (clear sky, good signal): Easy (4+) Navigation check (1D×10 minutes, INT or EDU), this is more than capable of "doing the job"

But the TL-10 version is better.

 

[ResslynHalvik]

Navigate by GPS (clear sky, good signal): Easy (4+) Navigation check (1D×10 minutes, INT or EDU)

What's that from? My CRB (MgT2e 2022) says:

Plotting a Course Using an Orbiting Satellite Beacon:
Routine (6+) Navigation check (1D x 10 minutes, INT or EDU)

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

What's that from? My CRB (MgT2e 2022) says:

I always read the CRB as a singular beacon (aka the starship or a survey probe). GPS is a network, so I dropped it one level of difficulty.
Based on personal experience, so the players can experience the joy of not wanting to wait until all five satellites are picked up while in a firefight, and bouncing to a Routine (6+) check.

 

[ResslynHalvik]

Interesting. If it were a single MPO satellite orbiting an earth-size world, the orbital period would be 2 to 24h, rather than 10 to 60 minutes, though

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

Interesting. If it were a single MPO satellite orbiting an earth-size world, the orbital period would be 2 to 24h, rather than 10 to 60 minutes, though

That depends- geosynchronous orbit is still "orbit".