Revision to the Troligan?
- Thread starter Locutus9956
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Locutus9956
Mongoose
Im expecing 2 Trolis and a Leshath to be the order of the day....
Unless they are copying ID Gaming's tournament idea, and doing 5 Skirmish/5 Raid/5 BattleTriggy said:You're expecting 5 FAP Raid fleets then?Burger said:Ohh yeah Troli is Battle level I forgotJust getting a bit over-excited with this "its too good!" thing.
OK, expect to see 2.5 trolli fleets :lol:
Well, the Troligan just got resoundingly beaten on Vassal by the Drakh, but dont take that as any indication. Turn 2, I blew up a 1+ stealth Torotha with a 6/6, 6/3 and 6/2 crit from a light cruiser. Turn 3, I hit the Troligan with a 6/3 and promptly disabled the forward weapon arc.
*NOT A GOOD TEST*
It is crazily overpowered.... just never test it against me.
Much like our 'how crap is the Neroon' trial, where the Neroon took out the engines and forward arc on a Ka'Bin'Tak on turn 1.
Strangely enough, we called game over on both of those.
*NOT A GOOD TEST*
It is crazily overpowered.... just never test it against me.
Much like our 'how crap is the Neroon' trial, where the Neroon took out the engines and forward arc on a Ka'Bin'Tak on turn 1.
Strangely enough, we called game over on both of those.
yep, alex got some insane luck - turn 1 -6 hits on torotha, 3 crits, all vital systems. whilst the troligan even though CAFed on the light cruiser managed a whole 2 hits with no crits.
turn 2 as stated the same light cruiser got 3 hits on the troligan, 2 of which crits, -4 spd and forward weapons vital. the 2nd light cruiser never even got into the game or fired a shot, one drakh light cruiser killed both minbari ships, for a total of 4 damage in return (plus 2 damage to scout from exploding torotha).
turn 2 as stated the same light cruiser got 3 hits on the troligan, 2 of which crits, -4 spd and forward weapons vital. the 2nd light cruiser never even got into the game or fired a shot, one drakh light cruiser killed both minbari ships, for a total of 4 damage in return (plus 2 damage to scout from exploding torotha).
I have to say, between a patrol level scout and +1 to stealth, Drakh have a far too easy time seeing Minbari
Add that to the fact that fusion cannons, between dodge and GEG are completely useless... Minbari are outclassed. You need beams to even touch Drakh, and you don't get enough!
Add that to the fact that fusion cannons, between dodge and GEG are completely useless... Minbari are outclassed. You need beams to even touch Drakh, and you don't get enough!
CZuschlag
Mongoose
Um ... I like to think I'm a qualified Drakh player (still awaiting feedback on my Drakh article!!!), and I got absolutely flushed by a Minbari in a tourney setting. And, for the record, the anti-fighter property that you get on fusion beams makes them more than capable of threatening individual Raiders.
And while the Drakh do get a +1, they have no fighters they can do Scanners to Full with in their enti; so the +4 is out of their capabilities.
My experience, and I believe the same for Chicago-North, is that the Minbari are now largely balanced. The Tinashi is still and excellent hull, and while those that have relied on the Tigara have had their heads handed to them (sorry, it really is a poor hull right now, mostly because of the interceptability of their weapons in a fleet that has, well, no other interceptable weapons to soak of the Interceptors), those that have adapted and moved to the Teshlan and the Ashinta are seeing the fruits of the Minbari Fleet's capabilities, having won the Armageddon-active Chicago IV Tournament last year.
I'm hearing an awful lot of complaints against Minbari Stealth and the like being weak, and I can't see that as accurate. It's just not warranted. The Minbari are weaker than before? Absolutely. But that brought them closer to balance, not reduced them to poor race. Welcome to the rest of the pack's balance.
And thank God for it.
The current Troligan is a horrid step in the wrong. It seems to reflect an attitude that Stealth is of marginal use. I believe that attitude is incorrect.
And while the Drakh do get a +1, they have no fighters they can do Scanners to Full with in their enti; so the +4 is out of their capabilities.
My experience, and I believe the same for Chicago-North, is that the Minbari are now largely balanced. The Tinashi is still and excellent hull, and while those that have relied on the Tigara have had their heads handed to them (sorry, it really is a poor hull right now, mostly because of the interceptability of their weapons in a fleet that has, well, no other interceptable weapons to soak of the Interceptors), those that have adapted and moved to the Teshlan and the Ashinta are seeing the fruits of the Minbari Fleet's capabilities, having won the Armageddon-active Chicago IV Tournament last year.
I'm hearing an awful lot of complaints against Minbari Stealth and the like being weak, and I can't see that as accurate. It's just not warranted. The Minbari are weaker than before? Absolutely. But that brought them closer to balance, not reduced them to poor race. Welcome to the rest of the pack's balance.
And thank God for it.
The current Troligan is a horrid step in the wrong. It seems to reflect an attitude that Stealth is of marginal use. I believe that attitude is incorrect.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
CZuschlag said:
Absolutely agree with you
for starters who needs +4? +3 can get you through most the minbari stealth automatically, and get even sharlins down to 2+ stealth. fighters used to scan minbari always die, much better to attack and hiope to crit something.
mini beams cannot be used AF on raiders as they are not aux craft. read your MB rules.
mini beams cannot be used AF on raiders as they are not aux craft. read your MB rules.
CZuschlag
Mongoose
Why, you are correct about that Katadder, hadn't noticed. They're still handy weapons (the Tinashi's twin-linked ones currently hit 5 times, for 2.6:2.6 and a better than 50% chance at a crit vs. a Heavy Raider per bank), if not overwhelming. If you are really worried about the sides, you could take the Sharoos (I'd consider that a marginal selection), and, of course, the Raiders have a VERY hard time defending against the Nials, but that's only really useful in the long-term.
raiders versus nials? worried? ok average nial gets 2 hits, the light raider dodges one of 4+. the hvy raider may or may not dodge one as its 5+. but that leaves the Nial needing a 6 to do anything.
dodge plus GEG is really really nasty. then when they get into campaigns - well lets just say i have seen a heavy raider with GEG2 and self repair 1d6.
dodge plus GEG is really really nasty. then when they get into campaigns - well lets just say i have seen a heavy raider with GEG2 and self repair 1d6.
CZuschlag
Mongoose
I have mentioned elsewhere -- that is considering the Campaign refits list, which I have, under separate cover, already noted as being out of balance. The Keeper function, of course, is far worse: As bad as that Raider might be, one turn of fire from a Tinashi should take care of it -- 4 Beams doing an expected 12.51:14.09 plus 8 TL Fusion Cannons doing 3.21:3.60 should decrew that Heavy Raider in one turn's fire (I did already include the GEG effects.)
Heck, it's not like Focussed Neutron Generators, Silent Runner, and Powerful Sensor Arrays aren't almost as bad!
It is important to remember that while GEG does stop a lot of Damage, the lower hull permits a lot of criticals, which the GEG does nothing to stop.
Finally, if you have a choice between a Light Raider and a Heavy Raider, why in God's name would you waste a fighter's fire turn on the Light Raider? They're glorified initiative sinks, by goodness' sakes!
Heck, it's not like Focussed Neutron Generators, Silent Runner, and Powerful Sensor Arrays aren't almost as bad!
It is important to remember that while GEG does stop a lot of Damage, the lower hull permits a lot of criticals, which the GEG does nothing to stop.
Finally, if you have a choice between a Light Raider and a Heavy Raider, why in God's name would you waste a fighter's fire turn on the Light Raider? They're glorified initiative sinks, by goodness' sakes!
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