Revision to the Troligan?

[Locutus9956]

Given that the reaction from pretty much everyone, playtestsers included to the new Troligan has been that its the most broken ship since the Armageddon Saggitarius (maybe even more so....) I was wondering what Matt or anyone other offician Mongoose chaps thoughts were on this and whether it might be revised in a new S&P like the Sagg was?

I don't mind mistakes being made, as long as something is DONE about them when they are highlited.

 

[Silvereye]

Its still probably early enough they can just re-edit the first PDF.

 

[JayRaider]

I don't mind mistakes being made, as long as something is DONE about them when they are highlited.

I agree completely.
A quick revision would be great news.
PS. I'll still be buying the model, if its toned down :wink:

 

[prelude_to_war]

Agreed. Revision please.

 

[Locutus9956]

Well no matter the stats I still don't like the new model but thats a matter of personal taste really. Unlike some of the Armageddon sculpts, in this case the new Troligan is at least as good quality as the older models and no more expensive so really its just personal preference that I don't actually like it

The stats need chaning though. Big time. I like it being tough, it is after all an 'armoured cruiser' but if your going to be tough with stealth you cant have the same firepower as more fragile ships.

 

[Alexb83]

It needs a complete re-think in terms of what weapons it has, IMO, and what its purpose in the fleet is. 30 and 18 inch range weapons do not belong on a ship designed for close range fighting, and, tbh, the ship will struggle to do its job.
Current loadout does not fit the fluff - it is supposed to be a rare speciality ship designed to brawl with the enemy whilst more 'traditional' designs cut things up from long range. Making a battle level brawler will most likely, tbh, remove it from practical consideration in Raid 5 games, because you can't really put 'traditional' Minbari ships on the table at 5 raid except in 1s and 2s (they're all at battle and above).

This design suffers from the problem that: it has war level range on its beams. I would argue that Minbari beams should have equal range to others' anyways (they simply have less AD, although atm they have less range /and/ less AD, and only gain the precise trait) but that's just me. It remains that 30 is better than 25. Overall it does have less firepower than a Tinashi (it lacks TL) but it is simply tougher, in hull and in scores. [/i]

 

[Locutus9956]

Heres an idea, take out the lasers entirely and give it molecular pulsars and anit-matter converters, essentially turn it into a battle level Tigara? That would fit the fluff nicely and be a fair ship imo.

Thoughts?

 

[Target]

Heres an idea, take out the lasers entirely and give it molecular pulsars and anit-matter converters, essentially turn it into a battle level Tigara? That would fit the fluff nicely and be a fair ship imo.

Thoughts?

Agree 100%.
All fleets need diversity in their ships eg Carriers, Scouts, Fast Attack, Brawlers, Bomabrdment, Escort & whatever type of ship you call omega, primus ( Ship of the Line ?? ).
The Minbari basically have the same ship over all priorities.

 

[Burger]

Just keep the stats as SFOS, but give it hull 6. Fixed.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Heres an idea, take out the lasers entirely and give it molecular pulsars and anit-matter converters, essentially turn it into a battle level Tigara? That would fit the fluff nicely and be a fair ship imo.

Thoughts?

Agree 100%.
All fleets need diversity in their ships eg Carriers, Scouts, Fast Attack, Brawlers, Bomabrdment, Escort & whatever type of ship you call omega, primus ( Ship of the Line ?? ).
The Minbari basically have the same ship over all priorities.

We have actually been doing this for 2nd ed, going through the lists making sure there is a tool for each job and not many duplicates. Some Centauri variants were lost as a consequence. The Minbari gained a much needed assault ship.

 

[Alexb83]

Heres an idea, take out the lasers entirely and give it molecular pulsars and anit-matter converters, essentially turn it into a battle level Tigara? That would fit the fluff nicely and be a fair ship imo.

Thoughts?

My thinking entirely - here's my proposed version from ye other thread again.

My version:-

Troligan

Speed 7 Craft 1 Flyer
Turn 1/45 Special Rules; AJP, Flight Computer, Stealth 3+
Hull 6
Damage 60 /15 Crew 48/12
Troops 4

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Fusion Cannon 18 FAPS 6 AP, MB,
Antimatter Converter 4 FAPS 6 DD, SAP
Molecular Disruptor 8 FAPS 6 AD, DD, P

Less guns than two Tigaras combined (by about 20% or therabouts), before anyone says anything! And it fits the 'throwing enemy formations into disarray' part. It's also a very selective use ship, which explains its rarety. Frankly I can't see it getting much use at Raid level. More for campaigns... but then, it is an oddball ship for Minbos.
Reasoning is simple: Fusion cannons are no good vs. hull 6, on average, you want something with shorter range and more punch. Neutron lasters dont fit the mentality/purpose of the ship.

 

[Locutus9956]

Hmm Id still tone its firepower down a little personally, at least on some of the arcs.

 

[katadder]

not really, the tigara has 4AD of molecular disruptors and mini beams in all arcs. its also hard to get a 4" range weapon into range if its side facing or rear facing.
personally I like it and have put it forward for testing (with possibly 8AD front disruptors due to tigara have 6 there)

 

[Alexb83]

It should read stealth 4+ - forgot to correct that again. I moved the AD around a bit - if it's sitting in the middle of enemy fleets blasting away, makes more sense to be firing in all directions pretty evenly.
You would expect it to have more guns than a single raid ship, but less than 2 (at least, that's the trend - in the majority of the fleets, barring the Vorlons between the Transport and Destroyer, and the Omega->Omega CC from what I recall) hence my split on the ADs - 4s replaced by 6s, and so on. But yes, the 6s on a Tigara should probably equate to 8s on the Troligan.

I'll be glad to hear how it does in testing.

 

[prelude_to_war]

Just keep the stats as SFOS, but give it hull 6. Fixed.

Agreed. Keep it simple.

 

[Da Boss]

The reply in the Rulesmasters forum states that it will be able to be used in the tournament in a month so it does not sound likely that it will receive an early revision?


It will come down to tournament organisers. However, they will be permitted in the next Mongoose tournament next month.
_________________
Matthew Sprange

 

[katadder]

yeah, a few of us are trying to get it changed before then though.
although the tourney will work differantly too.

 

[Burger]

If it isn't changed, expect to see some 5-Trolli fleets!

 

[katadder]

5 trolli fleet? with the raid points you used to?

 

[Locutus9956]

Is it a 5 pt Battle tourney then?