Replacing the Boon/Banes Extra Dice with DMs

[Wizard]

Recently I have toyed with modifying Boon so that instead of rolling an extra dice and discarding the lowest, the check simply gets DM+1. Similarly for Bane the check gets DM-1. I have also made these modifiers stackable, so you can for example get 3 Boons and 1 Bane and end up with DM+2.

Now that I have had more time to play with Traveller, the Boon/Bane dice mechanic is starting to feel more like a fun gimmick to me than an aid to roleplaying. It isn't the actual terms themselves, as I find the Boon/Bane terms a good way to describe situational modifiers. It's the actual extra dice mechanic itself. The main reason is that while the current Boon/Bane mechanic does influence the Effect, it does not change the possible magnitude of the Effect, only DMs do that.

Unlike some other RPGs, the Traveller rules rely heavily on the Effect of the check. This is especially true in combat where the Effect is added to the damage. Then you have the Effects Results Table where it specifies specific results for -6, -1, 0, +6 Effect. Also the referee can also use the Effect result between these milestone values to better describe the result, ie, at Effect 0: "You see movement in the dark corridor ahead", Effect +3: "You see 3, maybe 4, human size figures approaching in the dark corridor ahead" and at Effect +6: "You see 4 enemy soldiers with weapons drawn approaching in the dark corridor ahead". Simple and elegant, Effect helps to put the roleplay in the core Traveller dice mechanic.

So why don't I like the extra dice in the Boon/Bane mechanic? Truthfully I am finding it hard to explain just in words so let’s take a look at the following probability table. I have focused on Boon to keep this explanation clearer, but the same reasoning also applies to Bane.

Probabilities of getting a certain result or higher:

 2+    3+    4+    5+    6+    7+    8+    9+   10+   11+   12+   13+   14+
----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----
100%   97%   92%   83%   72%   58%   42%   28%   17%    8%    3%  ....  ....    2d6
100%  100%   97%   92%   83%   72%   58%   42%   28%   17%    8%    3%  ....    DM+1
100%  100%   98%   95%   89%   81%   68%   52%   36%   20%    7%  ....  ....    Boon
100%  100%  100%   97%   92%   83%   72%   58%   42%   28%   17%    8%    3%    DM+2

To see this nicely graphed go to http://anydice.com/program/6f98 and on the View section select 'Graph', in the Data section select 'At Least'.

For this example say you are performing an Average (8+) difficulty check. With Boon you have a marginally smaller chance of getting Effect +4 then with a DM+1 check, while you have no chance of getting Effect +5, while with DM+1 you have a chance. With DM+2, the magnitude of Effect is superior to Boon, especially with the possibility of Effect +5 and +6. So Boon increases the chance of success, but reduces the range of Effect especially at the higher end of Effect when compared to DMs. To me this has a negative influence on an important aspect of the core dice mechanic.

To emphasise a previous point, I still think the terms Boon/Bane should still be used. “The sun is in your eyes, you have Bane” just means apply a situational DM-1. I believe the terms are a nice and compact way of stating that you need to apply a situational DM to the check.

That reminds me, I need to get myself a suitable large 'Bane Hammer' so I can add a bit of extra drama to a situation by slamming it down on the table and yelling Bane! :twisted:

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

2D/Boon/Bane are specific rolls is all.

 

[Wizard]

2D/Boon/Bane are specific rolls is all.

Totally agree and due to this I believe the current extra dice mechanic of Boon/Bane mutates (in my opinion in a negative way) one of the most elegant and useful features of the Traveller 2d6 system, the Effect.

If Boon/Bane simply becomes DM+1/DM-1 then they can readily be mixed with DMs applied from the rulebook, with both having the same impact on Effect.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

If Boon/Bane simply becomes DM+1/DM-1 then they can readily be mixed with DMs applied from the rulebook, with both having the same impact on Effect.

The beauty of 2D/Boon/Bane rolls is that they don't force/override/alter target numbers. The actual dice are what add chance to a game. 2D/Boon/Bane rolls do not equate to +/- DMs. But this has been mentioned before in such B/B threads.

Talk to your players to see if they are ok with your rule change.

 

[Wizard]

The beauty of 2D/Boon/Bane rolls is that they don't force/override/alter target numbers. The actual dice are what add chance to a game.

Ah, one man's beauty, is another's ugly :wink:.

This is exactly what I don't like. I believe all the examples in the rulebook that say to apply Boon/Bane should alter the target number and thus Effect. For example for Boon it lists good tools. The way I see it, good tools when used in crafting would increase your chance of creating somethings a bit better than you could with average tools. With Boon/Bane your chance of success goes up, but not the ability to excel and do better which is dictated by Effect.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

This is exactly what I don't like. I believe all the examples in the rulebook that say to apply Boon/Bane should alter the target number and thus Effect. For example for Boon it lists good tools. The way I see it, good tools when used in crafting would increase your chance of creating somethings a bit better than you could with average tools. With Boon/Bane your chance of success goes up, but not the ability to excel and do better which is dictated by Effect.

And some people just change the Difficulty. Less maths. Classic Traveller has been doing it that way forever.

2D/Boon/Bane rolls are only about chance, rather than trying to guarantee certain Effects. The game is less binary with chance rolls.

 

[Sigtrygg]

My players like the boon/bane roll.

They like having the extra die to roll and the effects it may have.

Even though you can do the same thing with DMs, changing difficulty etc there is something nice about rolling the extra die.

 

[CosmicGamer]

For example for Boon it lists good tools. The way I see it, good tools when used in crafting would increase your chance of creating somethings a bit better than you could with average tools. With Boon/Bane your chance of success goes up, but not the ability to excel and do better which is dictated by Effect.

With a Boon, success is more likely and good things (high effect) are more likely to happen too. What it doesn't do is push the range of the effect to a higher level.

As it relates to your example, with DMs, a novice with good tools can outperform themselves creating works beyond their knowledge and skill would allow with normal tools because the possible effect is higher. The difference in tools can allow a novice to create works equal to a far more experienced craftsman.

Skill 0 and +1 for tools = +1 DM total

Skill 2 and -1 for tools = +1 DM total

Same chance of success and
Same range of effect -5 to +5
Note that the characters no longer have the chance for the exceptional failure or success which would have been possible with average tools.

vs

Skill 0 Boon
Effect range -6 to +4

Skill 2 Bane
Effect range -4 to +6

Note that the lower skilled person can still really flub it, just like if they had average tools, but it will be much more unlikely with the boon. Similarly, the skilled person can still do remarkable work but it is much less likely due so with a bane due to poor tools.
I'll leave the odds up to someone else to figure out.

 

[Wizard]

Note that the lower skilled person can still really flub it, just like if they had average tools, but it will be much more unlikely with the bane. Similarly, the skilled person can still do remarkable work but it is much less likely due so with a bane due to poor tools.

What I was picturing in my mind when I wrote it was a skilled wood carver being able to produce a better wood carving due to sharper and finer chisels then they could with average chisels. Don't ask me why I pictured a wood carver out of all the possible tool uses in Traveller, I have no idea :roll:.

 

[CosmicGamer]

I understand.

Trepidation regarding allowing a character to produce higher level works because their tools are a little better is likely more about deciding when something is worthy of a DM or not with the understanding that a single +1DM is the same as someone having significantly more raw talent or many years more experience.

I believe Bane/Boon was introduced not due to issues with a single +1DM but the possibility of multiple little DMs adding up and suddenly someone unskilled is at the point where everything they create is museum piece - absolutely no chance of failure due to DMs while Bane changes the shape of the curve, increases the chance of success and producing high effect without ruling out the other extreme.