Relics and Ruins of Atlantis

[LokiOne]

I an intrigued by the idea of possibly accessable marine ruins near where Atlantis sank into the waves ...

Conan found the high quality Atlantean sword in the subterranean crypt, in The Thing in the Crypt (correct name?).

I was thinking of adding some Atlantean quality Weapons, Relics and Artifacts to the 'Treasures' available in the game. Maybe these items are more commonly found in the shallows/ coastlines near Argos, Zingara, The Barachan Isles, or the shores of the Picts.

I yearn for some variety to the material rewards that I can deal out to My Players. Maybe some Treasure Tables, to go at the end of a possible Conan Bestiary to be forthcoming ???

It may be possible to incorporate some influences/ legends from the Kull era. There could be a new scenario in there for seafaring parties in the region.

Any ideas, clarrifications or comments from Anyone ???

Do the Core Set v3.5 Rules list suitable Treasures at all? I know that Conan has to be a 'low magic' World. The major Relics from current lists seem to be major rewards for the end of climactic scenarios.

Maybe someone can write an article for minor wards and talismans ... IE: " ...a pitance to ward off Evil ...?" (Street sellers from The Movie).

 

[Big Bucket]

I think it's a great idea. I had been planning on doing something similar, but just using various "Mastercraft" descriptors. The idea of "Atlantean" weapons adds some excellent flavor to the game, in my opinion.

My brother did something similar in a D&D game he ran many many many years ago. In that campaign, +1 and +2 weapons weren't considered magical - they just represented fine craftmanship or exceptionally strong or versatile materials. This idea seems to fit Conan very well, since there are no magic weapons to make your players happy.

In the current rules, Akbitanan weapons add +1 to hit and +2 to AP, I think. Maybe you could create a standard for Atlantean weapons as well, like +1 to hit, +2 damage. Or, if you don't want to limit yourself that way, just give each individual weapon whatever stats you want. While you're at it, you could always have a "Lemurian" class of weapons as well.

Thanks for the great idea.

 

[XcomSquaddie]

The weapon mentioned in the Crypt story wasn't Atlantean. IIRC Conan thought it was old Hyborian.

The "Hand of Nergal", the powerful scepter, was in Atlantis when it sank, and was recovered thousands of years later by a Pictish fisherman in a net.

From that, you can assume that the Hand was relatively close to the coast and that the sunken ruins were in relatively shallow water.

Pearl and sponge divers could discover ruins or artifacts by chance, while doing their jobs. Some individuals could make their living searching for relics to sell.

Atlantean weapons and equipment would be limited to metal only. Wood, bone or leather would never last under water. Another thing to remember is that Howard calls the Atlanteans "barbarians". While they would have had better gear from trade, capture, etc. overall they would still be primitive.

Legend links a reddish-gold metal called "oricalchum" to Atlantis. While some scholars theorize this was actually brass, you could easily say that it was a new metal, with whatever properties you wanted.

I would also say that the stats for Akbitanan weapons/gear could be used for Atlantean stuff.

As far as low magic, Conan is not a low magic setting. There are evil witches and sorcerers in almost every story. The difference is that the magic in Conan is the gritty, corrupting blood magic, not the happy, feel-good magic of D&D. If you want to be a powerful sorcerer in Conan, you better have your sacrificial knife ready.

 

[VincentDarlage]

The weapon mentioned in the Crypt story wasn't Atlantean. IIRC Conan thought it was old Hyborian.

Actually, in typical De Campean style, Conan makes many intellectual guesses about the origin of the sword and its giant owner, such as "From the horned helm, the cadaver might have been a chief of the primal Vanir and Aesir, or the primitive king of some forgotten Hyborian tribe, long since vanished into the shadows of time and buried under the dust of ages" and "It seemed as heavy as lead - a sword of the Elder Ages. Perhaps some fabled hero-king of old had borne it - some legendary demigod like Kull of Atlantis..."

Heck, it could even be a weapon from the Giant-Kings.

The movie does equate the sword with Atlantis. The soundtrack calls the music for that sequence, "The Atlantean Sword." Of course, the title of that sequence for the DVD is "Tomb of Crom", making the sword Crom's...

 

[XcomSquaddie]

Oops! My mistake. I completely forgot about the Kull comment.

 

[The King]

The weapon mentioned in the Crypt story wasn't Atlantean. IIRC Conan thought it was old Hyborian.

Actually, in typical De Campean style, Conan makes many intellectual guesses about the origin of the sword and its giant owner, such as "From the horned helm, the cadaver might have been a chief of the primal Vanir and Aesir, or the primitive king of some forgotten Hyborian tribe, long since vanished into the shadows of time and buried under the dust of ages" and "It seemed as heavy as lead - a sword of the Elder Ages. Perhaps some fabled hero-king of old had borne it - some legendary demigod like Kull of Atlantis..."

Though I can't imagine a sword lasting that long without rusting to dust, I like that sequence where the imagination of the Cimmerian flares up at the sight of the good weapon.
I don't like all of de Camp but this story was very good IMO with much details (like all these stories that happen early chronologically).
The sword can be magical or not but it doesn't matter. What is magical however is the atmosphere of the place teinted with superstition and awe.

 

[slaughterj]

The "Hand of Nergal", the powerful scepter, was in Atlantis when it sank, and was recovered thousands of years later by a Pictish fisherman in a net.

From that, you can assume that the Hand was relatively close to the coast and that the sunken ruins were in relatively shallow water.

- Per your first statement, the Hand was in Atlantis when it sank.
- Per your first statement, a Pict fisherman recovered it in a net.
- Per your second statement, the Hand was close to the coast - presumably this is an assumption based on the Pict fisherman's recovery. That seems reasonable as I doubt the Pict fisherman went too far from the coast.
- But that does not mean the last part of your second statement is necessarily the case, that the ruins were nearby in shallow water. That is a much bigger assumption about the location of Atlantis. I don't recall what clues there are about the location of Atlantis, but from the information you provided, I would say that the Hand did not necessarily have to be recovered from Atlantis (where it sank), as it may have drifted in undersea currents or been moved by other forces (natural, or supernatural). Otherwise, you have to assume Atlantis, the place where the Hand sank, is near Pictish lands.

 

[XcomSquaddie]

The "Hand of Nergal", the powerful scepter, was in Atlantis when it sank, and was recovered thousands of years later by a Pictish fisherman in a net.

From that, you can assume that the Hand was relatively close to the coast and that the sunken ruins were in relatively shallow water.

- Per your first statement, the Hand was in Atlantis when it sank.
- Per your first statement, a Pict fisherman recovered it in a net.
- Per your second statement, the Hand was close to the coast - presumably this is an assumption based on the Pict fisherman's recovery. That seems reasonable as I doubt the Pict fisherman went too far from the coast.
- But that does not mean the last part of your second statement is necessarily the case, that the ruins were nearby in shallow water. That is a much bigger assumption about the location of Atlantis. I don't recall what clues there are about the location of Atlantis, but from the information you provided, I would say that the Hand did not necessarily have to be recovered from Atlantis (where it sank), as it may have drifted in undersea currents or been moved by other forces (natural, or supernatural). Otherwise, you have to assume Atlantis, the place where the Hand sank, is near Pictish lands.

First off, I'll check the story when I get home. After forgetting the Kull reference above I don't trust my memory.

As far as the Atlantean ruins being that close to shore, you're probably right.

From the way the Picts are described, they have a Native American style of living. The Native American tribes of the Pacific Northwest (Tulalip, Swinomish, Lummi and Skagit) built massive canoes (up to 50' long and 8' wide) These would have a better range than a smaller craft.

Additionally, it is mentioned in Plato's tale that the island of Atlantis sank to a shallow depth, leaving the entire region of the ocean full of dangerous, muddy shoals. It can be assumed that as time passed, the former island would sink lower and lower.

Here's one theory:

Since Atlantis sank thousands of years before Conan's time, it's safe to assume that the water depth over the former island is substantial. Not only are the shoals and mud gone, but the region is beyond reach as far as skin diving.

However there would still be former mountains and other areas of higher elevation that could be reached by a practiced diver. Additionally, the great geological turmoil combined with ocean currents has shifted and scattered debris over a wide area.

Debris such as relics and artifacts would be washed ashore all along the Hyborian coasts, but only in places where the currents dropped them. Thus there would be small stretches of coast with rich deposits of artifacts and large stretches with nothing.

******************************************

Say a group of Picts in a great canoe ventures far out to sea, perhaps chasing a large fish, mis-navigation or even a storm. Far, far out to sea, they discover a wide stretch of ocean where the bottom is visible, perhaps fifty feet deep or so. The area is dangerous, and wracked by high winds, strong currents and crushing waves.

They determine that the shallow area is perhaps five miles long and 1-2 miles wide. The water varies from clear to very muddy. In the clear spaces, the Picts can see ruined buildings, toppled statues and shattered courtyards.

The Picts notice that the entire shallows are teeming with fish and sea life of all shapes and sizes. The nets are dropped and when pulled back in, are full of fish, all of large size and a variety of species.

On the second cast, a net becomes stuck. Tugged free, it is pulled into the canoe. The Picts are stunned to discover a metal spear head caught in the net. Made of a reddish-gold metal, it is encrusted with sea life. When cleaned up, it gleams as if newly forged, and reveals an unbelievably keen edge.

Within minutes, the Picts are taking turns diving down to the ruins. After a full day, they manage to acquire a few goblets, another spear head and some twisted links of metal. All are made of the red-gold metal and all are in excellent condition.

Near the days end, one of the Picts swims past a darkened ruin and a great tentacle whips out, dragging him into the shadows. Unnerved, the rest flee taking their treasures back to their coastal village.

Later they will return, fearful of the dangers, but driven by pride and greed...

 

[argo]

I haven't had occasion to hand out "Atlantian Steel" IMC yet, but if and when I do I intend to give it the properties of Akbitan weapons plus the Keen property (not that it is a "magic" sword, just exceptionally well made which is reflected in its sharpness).

Hope that helps.

 

[LokiOne]

Thanks Everyone for your valuable additions and commentary ...

...I thought that this would provoke some good ideas to come forth.

I knew that Conan's acquired sword was 'Special' in some way(s). Maybe it has qualities such as; non-coroding, keen edged or especially resiliant to sundering (Increased Hardness stat.)

Since Akbitanian weapons are the 'Damascus Steel' of the Conan Era, then Atlantean weapons could have some distinctly unique features that provide some welcome variety (Bestowed by the 'Oricalchum' metal - thanks Darth Mikey)

 

[XcomSquaddie]

Okay, I reread The Hand of Nergal last night and to my disgust I found that I was completely wrong about the Hand and Atlantis.

According to legend, the Hand fell from the sky and landed in the sea WEST of Atlantis, near the Pictish Isles. It was retrieved by a Pictish fisherman, who sold it to Atlantean merchants. From there it passed onto the main continent and through a variety of owners and kingdoms.

When the cataclysm sank Atlantis and shattered the world, the Hand passed into Stygia where it remained for at least 3000 years.

Getting back to the artifacts and relics stuff:

The mainland Atlanteans (eventually the Cimmerians) were joined by "thousands of their tribesmen in ships who came from the sinking land." The mainland colony is called a "kingdom" which implies some level of advancement beyond barbarism.

Eventually the Atlanteans would fight the Picts, devolve into ape-men and rise back up as Cimmerians. But there still could be ruins, tombs and the like, still hiding relics of the ancient Atlantean Colony.

 

[Lucius]

Just a minor and somewhat off topic post here I'm afraid.

Adventures may not neccisarily have to dive for artifacts. Sometime soon, I would like to adapt Lovecrafts "Dagon" into a Conan adventure. Whilst out on the open seas, the players awake to find their ship entirely surrounded by mud flats. After several days, they set off to explore and discover the remains of an ancient civilisation, brought up due to an aquatic earthquake of sorts. Whether the Deep Ones will survive the transfer to games is as of yet undecided.

I realise this is off topic, but whilst discussing the remains of Atlantis, I thought it may interest some.

 

[XcomSquaddie]

You aren't off topic. One of the major parts of the Atlantis legend is when it rises from the sea. Hell, Lovecraft had islands (Ryleh, Ghantotha's island, etc.) popping up all over the Pacific.

As far as Deep Ones go, they would probably work ok, as would a remnant population of degenerate Atlanteans.

Of course, Atlanteans would devolve into apes. But they'd be living in an aquatic environment. That would make them....







SEA MONKEYS!!!









I'm really sorry about that one.

 

[slaughterj]

Hey, didn't mean to make you re-read the story, just analyzing what you wrote

 

[XcomSquaddie]

Hey, didn't mean to make you re-read the story, just analyzing what you wrote

LOL. Yeah, it was really tough re-reading a Conan story...

Besides, I just thumbed through and read the pertinent sections.

I just amazed I mangled it that bad.

Okay, the pertinent sections and I might have glanced at the parts talking about Hildico's "perfect breasts"...


Repeatedly...


:twisted:

 

[slaughterj]

According to legend, the Hand fell from the sky and landed in the sea WEST of Atlantis, near the Pictish Isles.

Are you sure you mean WEST? It seems the sea is to the west of Pictland (making it sound like Atlantis and the Picts are on top of each other) though obviously the geography has changed through the ages.

 

[VincentDarlage]

The Pictish Isles of Kull's time was far to the west of the Thurian continent, and Atlantis was between the two. (see the second paragraph of Howard's essay, The Hyborian Age).

The Pictish Isles and the Pictish wilderness are two different places.

 

[slaughterj]

Thanks!

 

[LokiOne]

Thanks for the contibutions fellas - but I think that I'll stick to degenerate Atlanteans on shore ...(!). Sea Monkeys ! (Blarrrregh!). OK ...

Where did the survivors from the sinking get to, settle and spread to? I've read virtually nothing from Kull - although I do attempt to 'hunt down' material in second hand book stores.

I haven't even finished reading my RoK's all through yet. Next time I'll read up on Argos ...

I don't see why there shouldn't be some 'degenerate' marine humanoids around the former Atlantean area. Would make at least some new additions to the threats through the Western Sea. Full 'evolutionary' changes seem to occur quite quickly though, unless we are talking about something 'older' that decides to make It's/' Their home amoungst the marine ruins ...

I think that it tempts Players, and makes things easier, to have some discovered submarine ruins, as shallows ... Maybe a tectonic plate section that has broken off and drifted closer to the mainland ... somewhere (A Little Piece of Atlantis?)
It could be 'fun' to force Players to sea somehow (In the region) - maybe fleeing from violent Pictish aggression on shore (ala 'Dunkirk').

I am not familiar with any of the Cthulu/ Lovecraft stuff, 'cos I've not read any (yet). I know that there have been some attempts at 'conversions' of monster types (In this Forum?).

You've given Me some great ideas guys - keep it up !

 

[VincentDarlage]

Where did the survivors from the sinking get to, settle and spread to?

Cimmeria. The Atlantean remnants fought with the Picts. The outnumbered Atlanteans were hurled back into savagery and the evolution of the Picts were halted. Eventually the continual warring threw the Atlanteans so far back they became ape-men. They climbed out of their depths and became Cimmerians.