Races of Magnamund

[Winter Wolf]

There are definitely a group of Drakkarim Near the Durncrags who are disguised as sommelending soldiers in the game books. I don't think they are outcasts if lone wolf doesn't get away they meet up with a Gourgaz! :shock:

 

[Angantyr]

Winter Wolf is right; there's both the bandits near Holmgard, in Section 83, and the Drakkarim that you may meet if you turn to much to the west, in Section 334. It is the bandits that have Durenese weapons; nothing is said about any flaws in the Drakkarim's disguises.

 

[Balgin Stondraeg]

You see, now that's where the confusion came from .

For those of you who haven't read the other thread the canonical description of the Vakeros is "dark skinned" or "ebony skinned". The magicians of Dessi live in the same country so they may be dark too but the existing artwork seems to suggest otherwise.

I am pretty sure the magicians and the vakeros are both extremely tanned/brownskinned, not completely black. Dessi resembles southern Asia, from what I can gather.

He is tall and dark skinned, with plaited flaxen hair and sharp, cat-like eyes, and he wears the gold and scarlet tunic of a Vakeros--a warrior magician of Dessi. "Hail Paido!" says Lord Rimoah, bowing to this proud young man.

Castle Death

His name is Paido, a tall enbony skinned Vakeros, who is a master of the art of battle-magic. Among his fellow warriors he isa high-ranking lord, respected for his skill on the field of battle. Now, for the mission that lies ahead, he has exchanged his gold and scarlet robes for the clothing of a commoner, a roving adventurer with a sword for hire.

The Jungle of Horrors

Now this is missleading. Fair hair and dark skin generaly look wrong together but when the skin's really dark (like nubian or that blue black that really shines) then fair hair really looks out of place. This suggests a more tanned apeparance. The Mongoose art depicts the magicians of Dessi as being fair skinned, even palid in comparisson to others (see the Dessi lass on the cover of Dawn of Destruction although, to be fair to her, the other foreground figure is supposed to be Vassagonian (or possibly Shadkine but most likely Vassagonian)). It also depicts the Vakeros with european features and fair skin (almost makes them look french). So, whilst I am certain that the flesh of the Vakeros is dark I was actualy thinking of features (I haven't checked which cultural bloodlines they come from, they could be part Masbate, part Vassagonian etc).

 

[Wannabe Drakkar]

another problem is that in the Lone Wolf rulebooks, descriptions aren't even given, even more infuriating is there aren't any notes on naming of the kai lords, which is a major background letdown, just imagine some poor naive pc with a kai lord named Gavin!

 

[Bewildered Badger]

Section 114 ( I think) in The Dungeons Of Torgar refers to Paido's features (cat like eyes, plaited flaxen hair) as being distinctively those of a Vakeros. So whatever a Dessi magician does look like, it is sufficiently different from a Vakeros that they can instantly be told apart.
Mind you, it might just be different hair styles.

 

[Balgin Stondraeg]

Section 114 ( I think) in The Dungeons Of Torgar refers to Paido's features (cat like eyes, plaited flaxen hair) as being distinctively those of a Vakeros. So whatever a Dessi magician does look like, it is sufficiently different from a Vakeros that they can instantly be told apart.
Mind you, it might just be different hair styles.

I wouldn't be so sure. You see the Vakeros are the native people's of Dessi bu (by now) the Magicians are native to that land too. Perhaps they are members of the Vakeros who simply happen to be descended from the Shianti and have become Magicians just as the Vakeros Knights are members of the Vakeros who have become Knights.

They could be distinct or very similar.

 

[Bewildered Badger]

The thing is, in section 114 LW sees a chap in the cell, notes his distinctive features and thinks "Ah-ha, a Vakeros Knight!" (I paraphrase, of course).He does NOT add "...or maybe a Magician of Dessi, it's so hard to tell them apart."
So, whilst I accept there may be many similarities between Vakeros Knights and Magicians of Dessi, there MUST be enough differences that LW can instantly recognize who's who.

 

[Balgin Stondraeg]

Yes but the question still stands, is he a warrior of the Vakeros or a native of Dessi? Since both are technicaly the same thing you need to ask yourself how long the remnants of the Elder Magi have resided in Dessi, the fact that they are descendants who of course consider themselves to be the last of their group and does any possible in breeding with the Vakeros tribe cause the Vakeros children to have the magical aptitude to learn the battle magic and become Vakeros knights as some members of the tribe are better at the use of batte magic than others?

 

[Bewildered Badger]

You see the Vakeros are the native people's of Dessi

Are you sure of this Balgin?
When I first read the books many years ago I assumed that Vakeros was the name of the order of warrior-magicians, not of a race of people. The description of Vakeros in MoM seems to support this, too.
As far as I am aware there is no information in the original books, the Magnamund Companion or anything Mongoose have produced to suggest otherwise (if I am wrong about this, please let me know.).

 

[Balgin Stondraeg]

MOM states that the Vakeros are a tribal group native to the lands of Dessi and I think there might be something in Lone Wolf books 7 & 8 regarding this but I'd have to do a bit of checking to substantiate that. I suspect there's no mention of them in the Magnamund companion but I can check that too. Don't expect an answer anytime soon 'though (although my weekend's not very busy so I've got the time to spare so maybe I'll answer sooner rather than later).

 

[Angantyr]

MOM states that the Vakeros are a tribal group native to the lands of Dessi and I think there might be something in Lone Wolf books 7 & 8 regarding this but I'd have to do a bit of checking to substantiate that. I suspect there's no mention of them in the Magnamund companion but I can check that too. Don't expect an answer anytime soon 'though (although my weekend's not very busy so I've got the time to spare so maybe I'll answer sooner rather than later).

The MC or the additions in the LWC newsletters have no info on the Vakeros at all, or about any natives of Dessi.
Relevant quotes from the gamebooks (some of them are repeated):

He is tall and dark-skinned, with plaited flaxen hair and sharp, cat-like eyes, and he wears the gold and scarlet tunic of a Vakeros--a warrior-magician of Dessi.

The Vakeros are native soldiers of Dessi who have been taught the art of battle-magic by the Elder Magi to help them defend the northern border against invasion by the war-like Vassagonians.

As his eyes close for the last time, you promise that his bravery will live forever in the hearts of the Vakeros--his brave warrior kin.

I think that this seems to say that the Vakeros is the name of the warriors/warrior-magicians that belong to an unnamed, native Dessi race.

His name is Paido, a tall, ebony-skinned Vakeros, who is a master of the art of battle-magic.

'Vakeros power-word,' explains Paido, in answer to your unspoken question.

And this is compatible with the above.

At once you recognize his distinctive features: he is a Vakeros, a native warrior-magician of Dessi.

Here one can wonder how Lone Wolf can see from Paido's features that he is a warrior-magician. Are there no members of this native Dessi race that are not warrior-magicians?

There's no place where "Vakeros" is used in a group context that doesn't also say or imply that they are warriors, warrior-magicians or guards.

 

[Ghost Bear]

Actually there is. Book 21, Section 341:

"Three Vakeros natives appear from out of the pines and come hurrying towards you."

-GB

 

[Angantyr]

Actually there is. Book 21, Section 341:

"Three Vakeros natives appear from out of the pines and come hurrying towards you."

Oops. I did not check the New Order books, no (I don't have access to them). Is there any conclusive info there? In the above sentence, it certainly sounds like Vakeros might be the the name of the race - unless the three individuals are apparently soldiers?

 

[Balgin Stondraeg]

It's the Castle Death "Native" quote that I was thinking of. I knew there was something I hadn't read in years but wasn't sure where to start looking for it.

 

[Ghost Bear]

Oops. I did not check the New Order books, no (I don't have access to them). Is there any conclusive info there? In the above sentence, it certainly sounds like Vakeros might be the the name of the race - unless the three individuals are apparently soldiers?

No it's not conclusive. Reading the rest of the paragraph, it seems to suggest that the Vakeros might be the natives. However, further into the book

SPOILERS




Even the town militia of Hikas aren't referred to as Vakeros.

Is it possible that there are two people, the native Vakeros, and the 'civilised' city folk?

-GB (well confused).

 

[DuskFox]

Oops. I did not check the New Order books, no (I don't have access to them). Is there any conclusive info there? In the above sentence, it certainly sounds like Vakeros might be the the name of the race - unless the three individuals are apparently soldiers?

No it's not conclusive. Reading the rest of the paragraph, it seems to suggest that the Vakeros might be the natives. However, further into the book

SPOILERS




Even the town militia of Hikas aren't referred to as Vakeros.

Is it possible that there are two people, the native Vakeros, and the 'civilised' city folk?

-GB (well confused).

Talk about one of the most confusing conundrums in Magnamund. Are the Vakeros a Race or a Class? Are they the entire group or just a select few? What do you call the bloodline itself? Are they actually of Elder Magi descent, or are they separate? Did Joe take the word from the Spanish term for cowboy, or did he make it up?

I wish I knew, my friends. For now, all I can say is... maybe?

 

[Sado]

I always thought of the Vakeros as being like the Ghurkas of Nepal, native tribes known for their warriors (or in this case warrior-mages).

It makes sense that way. Ghurka is the name of the native people as a whole, but when you talk about them what comes to mind is the guerilla fighters/scouts who fought for the British.

 

[Balgin Stondraeg]

I got the impression that the Vakeros (tribe/culture/group/order etc) came from a country and if one was black it was probably a country where black people lived. However the existing art of the Magicians of Dessi (the homeland of the Vakeros) depicts them as white.

I always thought of the Vakeros as being like the Ghurkas of Nepal, native tribes known for their warriors (or in this case warrior-mages).

It makes sense that way. Ghurka is the name of the native people as a whole, but when you talk about them what comes to mind is the guerilla fighters/scouts who fought for the British.

That's a very good answer (and similar to the way I see things). The Vakeros are a people, a cultural group and there is the Vakeros order, renowned throughout the world.

 

[Bewildered Badger]

I always thought of the Vakeros as being like the Ghurkas of Nepal, native tribes known for their warriors (or in this case warrior-mages).

It makes sense that way. Ghurka is the name of the native people as a whole, but when you talk about them what comes to mind is the guerilla fighters/scouts who fought for the British.

Yeah, makes sense to me.

As to the Elder Magi being portrayed as white in the game books, this may be because of their near immortal status. Lord Rimoah and his chums could still be first generation Magi, victors of the war against Agarash, survivors of the Great Plague.
My personal interperetation ( and please feel free to pick fault where you can find it...) is that Dessi is home to three groups. First, there are the all-wise Elder Magi. These guys are generally in charge of the place.
Then you get the Magicians of Dessi. As I see it, they are the offspring of two Elder Magi. Given their long life span, it seems reasonable to assume the Magi have a low reproductive rate ( that's the way it generally happens in nature, and it means there numbers haven't dramatically increased in the millenia scince the plague.). The Magicians are a lot less powerfull than there parents, and thus try to gain the experience they need to grow and develop. It has been suggested elsewhere in this forum that a Magician achieving level 20 would then become a Magi. This makes sense. It also allows for role-playing opportunities. Supposing it is ASSUMED that a Magician would thus become a Magi, but no one has ever achieved it? There would be tremendous pressure on any likely candidate to succeed. In addition, the forces of Darkness would have a vested interest in preventing such an ascension.
Finaly, you get the native people of Dessi, the ones who do all the tasks needed to actually run a country. I am prepared to accept that they are called Vakeros, based on the earlier quote.
MoM makes it clear that the Vakeros Knight depends on his/her bloodline for the special skills and abilities. The chronology in the corebook suggests that during the war with Agarash, the magical powers of the Magi and Agarash effectivly canceld each other out, meaning that it was the actions of mortals that decided events. Now it seems plausible to me that during that time the Dessi natives were firmly on the side of Good, and one of the most effective forces. The Elder Magi, working with the Vakeros, could have enchanted some of them, allowing them to use spell and Blue Steel ( essentially creating the Magnamund equivalent of the SAS or Delta Force). The Vakeros Knight of today is a descendant of these warriors.
Angantyr wonders how, in Dungeons of Torgar, can Lone Wolf recognize that Paido is "a Vakeros, a native warrior-magician of Dessi." In the section that quote comes from there are references to a number of features, ebony skin, cat like eyes and plaited flaxen hair. Now most of these would be generic to a paticular race, so we can rule those out. Perhaps, in the same way only Kai Lords can wear a paticular shade of green, only Vakeros knights can plait there hair?

 

[Anonymous]

The Vakeros would be the offspring of the magicians of dessi and a normal resident of dessi (the original people who lived in dessi), and.or the offspring of two native dessi. This is my opinion anyway.

Think of them as mutants, like the xmen. Not every offpsring will go on to be a vakeros, just like once in a while a child of ordinary parent will sometimes show vakeros talent. Basically the blood of the elder magii and the native dessi has intermingled so much over the generations that anything is possible.=, from any couple that bears a child.

As for how lone wolf recogonized him, I think it had more to do with the armor/style of clothing than hair.