Quick question on "Zombies"

[StellarVenture]

The "zombies" bio bots found in the robot handbook price seems to be quite high for something described as often being supplemented with an already developed body instead of creating a bio bot from scratch. Is it safe to assume that a chunk of the listed value for these zombies comes from the value of developing an equivalent clone?

If not I'm mostly just curious on where the value breakdown comes from. Since they're more like cyborgs, that can be controlled, than a true bio bot.

 

[MonsterX]

I have assumed that it is possible to make them on the cheap, if you can acquire living "volunteers". Legal complications may arise, unless you are positioned to be the one writing the laws. Some might also find the practice morally objectionable.

 

[StellarVenture]

I have assumed that it is possible to make them on the cheap, if you can acquire living "volunteers". Legal complications may arise, unless you are positioned to be the one writing the laws. Some might also find the practice morally objectionable.

That is definitely more the angle I'm looking at, those in power of a planet imposing it as a capital sentence. It being a great punishment that allows one to contribute beyond "death" helping to alleviate the social stigma while not having people fear being grabbed from their homes.

I understand that the robot brain will be an all too present cost but by not growing the body you'd expect the cost to be far cheaper than listed.

 

[swordtart]

The cost of the Zombie in the RH already assumes you are not growing the body (if you are then it is a normal biological robot).

The KCr10 KCR100 listed is the cost of the basic brain alone (the advanced ones are MCrs). Even the basic brain interfaced to a biological body is far more expensive than the non bio equivalent. It is too expensive in my opinion and I'd have liked to see a simple scaling from the normal robot brains rather than a new table). However there is probably a lower limit of cost as the brain body interface is likely as complex as a neural link (which is KCr30) plus an extra cost as the robot brain replaces the brain rather than merely substitute some of its functions.

We can presume perhaps that governments will be able to make bulk savings and the costs might not be as high for them.

Where your dubious government will make savings will be in reusing the same brain in multiple bodies once they wear out. That KCr10 is much less if it can serve for centuries being grafted onto different bodies as they wear out. Delightfully sinister Or possibly this could be likened to reincarnation and a positive spin put on it.

If you were simply looking for cheap workers pressed from death row, it would be cheaper and easier to lobotomise them rather than build a robotic brain and implant it. Or just fit a cortex bomb to ensure compliance.

EDIT:
Typo on the price.

 

[Jame Rowe]

Provided I get the Robot Handbook*, I might well just make zombie bots a LOT cheaper.

*I've been running out of energy, and having difficulty finding local players.

 

[Endie]

That is definitely more the angle I'm looking at, those in power of a planet imposing it as a capital sentence. It being a great punishment that allows one to contribute beyond "death" helping to alleviate the social stigma while not having people fear being grabbed from their homes.

I understand that the robot brain will be an all too present cost but by not growing the body you'd expect the cost to be far cheaper than listed.

If only this were far-fetched, but China has embedded mandatory organ reuse for executed prisoners into their system, and there appears to be a decent-sized industry in finding prisoners who are a match to rich individuals and ensuring that their sentences lead to organs becoming rapidly available.

 

[swordtart]

Re-reading that RH I see that the KCr100 is for the "basic" robot brain implant. This is actually an Advanced Brain (Int 8).

The brain for a normal biological robot seems to be triple the cost of the equivalent non-biological one. You could assume that the body is free if you are using donors and the only cost would then be the brain (assuming fitting it is part of the overall cost). If you wanted a really cheap disposable workforce you could get by with even a Basic(X) Brain and at the right TL that could go as low as KCr12.

On that basis I would consider lowering the cost of Labourer style Zombie to KCr12 plus whatever the body costs (either cheap clone or "donor"). This would likely be cheaper than a true clone (for training if nothing else) and avoid the rapid aging issue if a non-clone donor was used. Win-Win

You might also consider that the Biological Advanced Brain is only KCr30 at TL12 and possibly might be more intelligent than the donor (it tends to be the less intelligent criminals that get caught) and absolutely more than a lobotomised human. Such brains could presumably be reused if the donor body failed further reducing cost (indeed there may be a "used" market for such brains in shadier polities.

 

[StellarVenture]

Re-reading that RH I see that the KCr100 is for the "basic" robot brain implant. This is actually an Advanced Brain (Int 8).

The brain for a normal biological robot seems to be triple the cost of the equivalent non-biological one. You could assume that the body is free if you are using donors and the only cost would then be the brain (assuming fitting it is part of the overall cost). If you wanted a really cheap disposable workforce you could get by with even a Basic(X) Brain and at the right TL that could go as low as KCr12.

On that basis I would consider lowering the cost of Labourer style Zombie to KCr12 plus whatever the body costs (either cheap clone or "donor"). This would likely be cheaper than a true clone (for training if nothing else) and avoid the rapid aging issue if a non-clone donor was used. Win-Win

You might also consider that the Biological Advanced Brain is only KCr30 at TL12 and possibly might be more intelligent than the donor (it tends to be the less intelligent criminals that get caught) and absolutely more than a lobotomised human. Such brains could presumably be reused if the donor body failed further reducing cost (indeed there may be a "used" market for such brains in shadier polities.

It does triple the cost, listed in the bio bot description just before cyborg stuff, but the zombie only has a basic brain which after that still only comes to 60k credits.

Doing up the rest in the robot creation steps I saw the body+locomotion taking up 30k~ which was why I felt with the reused body it should be discounted.

However maybe I'll have to find/think of something that hijacks instead of replaces the brain for what I'm wanting from it.

 

[StellarVenture]

The cost of the Zombie in the RH already assumes you are not growing the body (if you are then it is a normal biological robot).

The KCr10 listed is the cost of the basic brain alone (the advanced ones are MCrs). Even the basic brain interfaced to a biological body is far more expensive than the non bio equivalent. It is too expensive in my opinion and I'd have liked to see a simple scaling from the normal robot brains rather than a new table). However there is probably a lower limit of cost as the brain body interface is likely as complex as a neural link (which is KCr30) plus an extra cost as the robot brain replaces the brain rather than merely substitute some of its functions.

We can presume perhaps that governments will be able to make bulk savings and the costs might not be as high for them.

Where your dubious government will make savings will be in reusing the same brain in multiple bodies once they wear out. That KCr10 is much less if it can serve for centuries being grafted onto different bodies as they wear out. Delightfully sinister Or possibly this could be likened to reincarnation and a positive spin put on it.

If you were simply looking for cheap workers pressed from death row, it would be cheaper and easier to lobotomise them rather than build a robotic brain and implant it. Or just fit a cortex bomb to ensure compliance.

Minor note, zombies are 100k credits. The basic brain it has gets a x3 for being a bio bot brain, I'd assume that accounts for the interface, which only really accounts for 60k of that 100

 

[swordtart]

Minor note, zombies are 100k credits. The basic brain it has gets a x3 for being a bio bot brain, I'd assume that accounts for the interface, which only really accounts for 60k of that 100

Yes, apologies for that typo.

How are you getting the cost of the brain to KCr60? From TL10 the cost of a basic brain is KCr4 trebled for a biological unit that is still only KCR12. I cannot see why you would fit a more expensive less capable TL8 version as the Zombie is listed as TL11. Further the TL8 version would only be INT 3 not the INT 4 listed.

The Zombie entry lists basic Biorobot body as a component so it looks like KCr32 (16*KCr2) has been added to the price for that (despite the premise being it is a repurposed sophont). It has a few more options than the default suite, but there is no way they account for the missing KCr56, but if you are correct about the brain being KCr60 then the body and brain would be KCr92 and KCr100 is in the ball park.

It seems like an editing issue.

 

[StellarVenture]

RH pg 66, basic(x) TL 8 brain CR 20,000. On the following page it does also call out that retro tech discount doesn't apply (or already accounted for) with brains below very advanced.

Then on pg 88 where it details bio bots "As with an android, the biological robot option triples the physical cost of the robot, up to and including the brain". Which also lists the basic, TL 11 like zombies, version as having cost base slot Cr2000. 16 slots at size 5, as you said, which might be affected by the x3 but I'm not sure. Which if it does apply brings that 32k to 96k giving potentially the discount another poster did describe.

So, 20,000 x3 for bio bot was how I was getting 60k

Unless I've missed something which is entirely possible and a part of why I thought to bring it to the forums.