Questions about skills over 100% & Critical Hits

[HyrumOWC]

I can't get the table to format right, but here's the relevant info from the SRD: (I'm also assuming it's ok to post as the rulebook is already in the hands of people)

Close Combat Attacks
1 – Making the Attack
An attack is made by simply rolling D100 and comparing it to the character’s skill in the weapon he is using.

If a character rolls equal to or lower than his Weapon skill, he has hit his target.

If a character rolls greater than his Weapon skill, he has missed his target.

2 – Target Reaction
If the enemy has any Reactions left, then this attack may be opposed. The target may attempt to dodge or parry the attack, as they choose. However, only one Reaction may be made to each successful attack.

If the enemy has no Reactions left, then this attack is unopposed. Move straight on to Damage Resolution.

3 – Damage Resolution
If the attack is successful, damage is rolled. Each weapon has its own Damage score, to which is added the attacker’s Damage Modifier in order to determine the total damage being dealt.

A D20 is rolled alongside the damage roll, in order to determine the location of the target being struck.

If the damage is greater than the target’s SIZ at this point (before armour points are deducted), Knockback occurs.

If the defender is armoured in the location that is hit, the armour will absorb some of this damage. Reduce the attack’s damage by the armour points (AP) of the location’s armour.


Reactions
A character can make as many Reactions in a combat round as he has Combat Actions. Unlike Combat Actions, Reactions are not made during a character’s Strike Rank but are made in response to the Combat Actions of enemies.

There are four types of Reaction – dodge, parry, dive for cover and free attacks.

Reactions are declared after the trigger event has occurred but before its effects are applied.

Only one Reaction may be made in response to a single trigger event, no matter how many Reactions a character has available.

Dodge
Trigger Event: A successful ranged or close combat attack being made against the character.

Restrictions: Helpless characters may not dodge.

Penalties: A mounted character suffers a –30% penalty to his Dodge Skill. If a character has his back to a wall, cliff, more enemies or is otherwise impeded from freely dodging in any direction, he will suffer a –20% penalty to his Dodge Skill.

A dodge opposes the attacker’s Weapon skill to the target’s Dodge Skill in a roll similar to an opposed skill test. The attacking and defending players each roll D100 and compare their results on the Dodge table.

Ok, based on the last paragraph I'm going using the idea that combat goes like this:

Bob attacks Scott, rolls 75 and hits

Scott has a Reaction, he elects to Dodge.

Bob and Scott roll.

Bob rolls 86, a miss.

Scott rolls 54, a hit.

According to the chart, Bob misses.

However, if Scott had rolled a miss, Bob would have hit.

Hyrum.

 

[Rurik]

OK, here is where I see the the halving method hurts high scores. We have been looking at the attacker as always having the skill over 100. And it works pretty well for that, because my hit or crit chances are not affected, and his parry skill is halved so I get a big advantage for being over 100.

Say my skill is 99 and my attackers is 80. He is likely to hit, but I will almost always parry and absorb some or all of his damage with my weapon or shield.

If my skill is 101 he is still 80% likely to score a hit, but now I am only 50% likely to block any of that damage. It doesn't matter if his opposed roll succeeds or fails - if my parry roll fails both result in attack succeeds as normal, so he is not hurt by having his skill halved by my high skill, while I am twice as likely to take damage.

That is my understanding based on how the rules have been described.

 

[Urox]

OK, here is where I see the the halving method hurts high scores. We have been looking at the attacker as always having the skill over 100. And it works pretty well for that, because my hit or crit chances are not affected, and his parry skill is halved so I get a big advantage for being over 100.

And what about the opposite case -- say a troll with 80% attacks me and hits -- I have parry 110% -- do I get halved and now only have a 55% chance to parry (in an opposed roll vs. the troll's modified 40% attack)?

 

[Rurik]

OK, here is where I see the the halving method hurts high scores. We have been looking at the attacker as always having the skill over 100. And it works pretty well for that, because my hit or crit chances are not affected, and his parry skill is halved so I get a big advantage for being over 100.

And what about the opposite case -- say a troll with 80% attacks me and hits -- I have parry 110% -- do I get halved and now only have a 55% chance to parry (in an opposed roll vs. the troll's modified 40% attack)?

Yes, that is exactly the case I was trying to describe.

There are up to two rolls involved. The attack roll is always unopposed, and so your skill never gets cut in half when attacking.

If the attack succeeds the defender may parry. If they do, there is an opposed roll, so both the attacker (for second time) and the defender roll. Since this is an opposed roll the halving rule applies.

Keep in mind there is only a parry roll if the attacker succeeds at his attack, so that if both attacker and defender fail the parry opposed roll the attack hits as normal. If the attacker wins the opposed roll the attack also gets through as a normal hit.

So, other than criticals, the only roll that really matters for the parry is the defenders, if it succeeds damage is blocked, if it fails the attack gets through.

So if you have a skill of 110 and attack a troll with an 80 you attack at 110 and he parrys at 40. Big advantage for a having high skill.

He attacks at 80 and you parry at 55, which hardly seems fair to me.

 

[HyrumOWC]

He attacks at 80 and you parry at 55, which hardly seems fair to me.

Wouldn't it be he attacks at 40 and you parry at 55? If your skill is over 100%, both your skill and your opponent's gets halved.

Hyrum.

 

[jadrax]

He attacks at 80 and you parry at 55, which hardly seems fair to me.

Your compairing apples to orenges though, as the second roll is opposed and the first is not.

I cant be sure without seeing teh table, but as long as on the opposed roll Both Failing is about = to both making it, then it dosen't actually matter that much.

 

[jadrax]

Wouldn't it be he attacks at 40 and you parry at 55? If your skill is over 100%, both your skill and your opponent's gets halved.

Hyrum.

As i understand it the attack roll is never halved, only the roll to resist parry is.

 

[Dr. Halflight]

He attacks at 80 and you parry at 55, which hardly seems fair to me.

Wouldn't it be he attacks at 40 and you parry at 55? If your skill is over 100%, both your skill and your opponent's gets halved.

Hyrum.

Yeah both participants skills get halved. Not just the person parrying.

Doc

 

[Archer]

As I interpreted the description of the halving rule earlier in this thread, you only half the scores if the attacker has a score higher than 100. Unless you does, you would still defend with your 110%, I assume.

 

[Dr. Halflight]

Wouldn't it be he attacks at 40 and you parry at 55? If your skill is over 100%, both your skill and your opponent's gets halved.

Hyrum.

As i understand it the attack roll is never halved, only the roll to resist parry is.

From what I've seen the inital attack roll is not halved. But if it hits AND the defender uses a reaction to parry or dodge then both attacker & defender's skills are halved.

Doc

 

[Urox]

He attacks at 80 and you parry at 55, which hardly seems fair to me.

Wouldn't it be he attacks at 40 and you parry at 55? If your skill is over 100%, both your skill and your opponent's gets halved.

From what people are saying about the rules, the halving only comes in for the opposed roll for a defensive action.

Troll Atatcks at his normal 80% and hits.

I use a reaction to Parry, with my 110% -- since one of us is >100%, the skills are halved, giving the Troll 40% and me 55% for the opposed rolls.

I haven't memorized the chart, but at first glance, it seems that I would have less chance of parrying than if I had 100% skill.

 

[Dr. Halflight]

The Very High Skills rule says we should halve both skills and then play out the encounter.


This is from the very fost post in this thread.

Doc

 

[Rurik]

1) The attacker rolls, this roll is never opposed. The halving rule only applies to opposed rolls, so this first roll is never halved.

2) Only if the attacker hits does the defender have to choose to parry.

3) If the defender parries there is an opposed roll, so both the attacker and defender roll. Note the attacker rolls a second time for the opposed role. Since this is an opposed roll the halving rule applies. So both the attackers and defenders skills are halved.


This table is to demonstrate that, aside from criticals, in an opposed parry roll, the only roll that really matters is the defenders. If his roll succeeds, he parries, and if his roll fails, the attack suceeds. It doesn't really matter what the attacker rolls (again, excepting criticals, but this covers the most likely results).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
..............................| Defender Success | Defender Fail........|
------------------------|-------------------------------------------------
Attacker Success... | Parry..................... | No Parry ............. |
------------------------|-------------------------------------------------
Attacker Fail........... | Parry..................... | No Parry ............. |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is my understanding of the rules so far. So the troll would attack at 80, since the initial attack roll is unopposed and so never halved. For my parry, however, both are skills halved, so my skill becomes 55 and his becomes 40. The problem is my roll is the only one that actually does anything. If my skill was 95 I would parry at 95%. Since my skill is 110 I parry at 55%

 

[andakitty]

Thank you, Itto, Hyrum. Looks very, very good to me.

 

[atgxtg]

Hunh? Are Parries always opposed rolls? Or only if the attacker crits? Or only if the attack has over 100%? Or only if the attacker has over 100% and crits?

For a simplification of the rules, MQ seems to get more and more complex...

Parrys and dodges are always opposed rolls. The Very High Skill Rule is there to stop combat and opposed skill tests from breaking down when skills get over 100% like they always did in the past.

Combat works well and its fast, people die, its just a little different.

But RQ combat didn't break down in the past when skills got over 100%. THat was one of the nice things about RQ-it didn't breakd own at high skill ratings the way D&D does at high levels. The increased critical and special success chances saw to that.

 

[atgxtg]

Can we get an offical clarification of this from someone from Mongoose?

 

[Enpeze]

But RQ combat didn't break down in the past when skills got over 100%. THat was one of the nice things about RQ-it didn't breakd own at high skill ratings the way D&D does at high levels. The increased critical and special success chances saw to that.

Correct. It didnt break down. The high skill rule was great. (splitting attack in 2 seperate attacks) No need to fix something which works well.

Lets see: RQ3 had max. 4 dice rolls per combat turn (provided skill under 100%) 1x attack, 1x defense, 1xhitlocation, 1x damage.

MRQ has max. 5 dice rolls per combat turn, but per combat action!
1x attack, 1x reaction, 1x attack-opposed, 1x damage, 1x hitlocation. So if someone has 3 combat actions he has to roll 15x dice per combat turn.

Is this "streamlining" or "simplification"?

I think the opposed roll may shorten a combat, but it is not very intuitive. Its rather abstract. How should a GM visually describe this "opposed" roll to his player? The best would be NOT to describe the second attack roll at all (maybe making a short..ähem..or hiding behind the GM screen ) and just read the number for technical reasons.

And ranged combat? Does this also work with opposed rolls? (AFAIK can you parry some ranged weapons with your shield)

 

[Urox]

And ranged combat? Does this also work with opposed rolls? (AFAIK can you parry some ranged weapons with your shield)

IIRC, the weapon table preview from the MQ Rulebook had footnotes about shields parrying missile weapons.

 

[Fiddler]

While reading the examples given of the attack and reaction rolls I viusalized them as all discribing one combat exchange.

It reminds me of wraping my head around Shadowrun for the first time, figureing out the interaction of all those dice pools.

I also remember the first time I read the line in old D&D about every(10 second) round the combatants are exchanging many attacks and parries, but only their allowed number of attacks count, gave me a mental image of blindfolded people sword fighting.

I will read it and run a few games and then decide about houserules.

 

[atgxtg]

Since Mongoose based MRQ so much on HeroQuest (maybe we should call it MHQ not MRQ), I surprised they just didn't use "bumps' for Masteries and avoid the entire multiple roll and skill halving situations.