Questions about skills over 100% & Critical Hits

Dr. Halflight said:
AND please, as a fan, I hope no one else posts they hope it dies a quick death.

And my last points are these: It looks like its still close to BRP, RQ2 or 3 & SB5, so it can at least supplement those games to some degree, I know Deluxe BRP is supposed to be out this year, but Chaosium doesn't typically make its deadlines or produce a ton of material each year. AND its OGL, so anyone can "create" supplements or new combat systems for MRQ & do its similar heritage to the OTHER RQ/BRP derived games that already exist. If you don't like the combat CHANGE it and then put it on a web page or publish it.Doc

Chaosiums Deluxe BRP is OGL? Wow. Thats a good message.....:)


Regarding MRQ I think noone among us is wishing that this game will be a flop. I wish it will be a big success, even if I dont probably play with the MRQ core rules. Success means ongoing support with source material from Mongoose AND from other publishers. This everyone could convert very easy to the BRP version of his choice.

So wishing this game to fail is totally shortsighted and against the interest of any true RQ/BRP fan. I am sure noone in this forum is that stupid.
 
:lol: atgxtg, if you think SB5 is my favorite BRP derivative you haven't been reading my posts at all. Hoping the game fails is rather petulant of you. No doubt about that. I am just expressing my excitement and pleasure over the new upcoming game, which I do have a right to do just as some of you have a right to find everything possible that you can think of to dislike it for, and condemn it before it's even out. If you want to play older games, have fun. I'm moving on. No, I already have.

I know it's not BRP and that's OK. I am constantly reminded of BRP because they did things I did in my homebrew (which is not RQ or SB by a long shot either). And I was upset when I first saw the way the combat was set up. The more I look at it the better it looks to me. Again, I hope it works for enough of us to give it a long life.

Another question for those of us who have been lucky enough to play the game already. Simply, what happens if the attacker rolls a critical on both the initial and opposed rolls?
 
Hey, that reminds me, anyone know how criticals work in MQ? Someone said they no longer ignore armor. If so, just how do you whack on that Zorak Zorani Rune Lord with enchanted lead armor with a bazillion AP?

You're right. Criticals do not ignore armour, as far as I can see. They do "maximum damage", excluding damage bonus, instead of the old double damage (etc). Some weapons (basically shortswords and spears) also can "Impale". This involves more dice rolls. On an Impale, you can either leave the weapon where it is, which drags around in the opponent and hampers them, or try and pull it free, but you lose your weapon. To pull it free, you have to make an Athletics (?!?) roll. If you make it, you get to roll the weapon damage and add that to the full damage already caused. If you fail, you cause an additional 1d4 damage and the weapon stays stuck.

This means that if you critically hit someone with a "war sword", you do 8 points of damage plus your damage bonus. If you hit Average Joe in the head and he isn't wearing any armour, this isn't enough to potentially kill, but you might just knock him unconscious. If Average Joe is wearing chainmail, for example, (5pt) and has 5 HP in the head (average), you are going to need FOUR criticals to his head to cause any significant damage. As far as your Zorak Zoran Rune Lord is concerned, forget it. You're never going to be able to damage him with a "war sword".

The solution? Well, you could try the nifty battle magic (oops - RUNE magic) spell "Skybolt". This one's brilliant. For a mere 3MP you get to cause 3D6 damage on your opponent, IGNORING ARMOUR. That would be my tactic. Pile on shedloads of armour, get a POW crystal, get the Skybolt spell, and stop mucking about with these feeble "weapons". Only problem, the Skybolt spell is part of the "Chaos" rune - although as far as the rules are concerned this seems to be no problem for anyone to gain (tentacles, anyone...?).

Either that, or use "Precise Attacks" all the time, subtracting 40% from your attack every time and opting to bypass armour. Oh, and use a spear. No other weapon is worth wasting time on. Get half a dozen just in case you can't retrieve post-impale, they do 1d10, which is 1d10+10
on a crit, and go for Bypass Armour every time.

Nice'n'crunchy, eh? Lots of scope for "variable" tactics? Just make sure you've got loads of scrap paper around though - the book-keeping here is gonna be awesome, especially when you get multiple Combat Actions, equal number of Reactions, variable Strike Ranks, and multiple opponents! ("Hmm... it's my third combat action this round, and Broo #3 has already made 2 Reactions - I think - so may not have any left if I try and hit him again with my Bypass Armour attack this time. Or was that Broo #4? And what's our strike ranks this Round again...?")

Another question for those of us who have been lucky enough to play the game already. Simply, what happens if the attacker rolls a critical on both the initial and opposed rolls?

Good question. The rules don't say. There appears to be no difference between rolling an initial Critical followed by a second Critical and rolling an initial Normal Success followed by a second Critical - they both result in a Critical. Another big question is what happens if you roll an initial Critical followed by a second Normal Success. The rules say "the attack succeeds as normal" - I'm not sure whether this means it is or it isn't a Critical.

Hopefully Mongoose are making a list of the questions (etc) we're raising, and when they reach critical mass will enlighten us with some answers? I for one have no intention of "house ruling" this thing - I might as well stay with what I've got, it works & it makes sense & I can use the scenarios & background!

BTW - I am REALLY looking forwards to the 2A background!!! Even if the Rules are clunky, the new source material is something we're all eager to see!

Sarah
 
andakitty said:
Another question for those of us who have been lucky enough to play the game already. Simply, what happens if the attacker rolls a critical on both the initial and opposed rolls?

The two critical cancel each other out and become a normal hit. Either that or the universe implodes. Not sure which.

Seriously the only rule I have a problem with is the halving rule. I don't see any way it doesn't hurt me when parrying once my skill goes over a hundred. Having a skill over a hundred actually helps A LOT when attacking, but really screws you when parrying. And the over a 100 resolution is the topic of this thread really.

I am perfectly willing to try the other changes, and I suspect they may play quite well, just "different". Though the original RQ system was very easy to visualize and gritty, it was an abstraction just like any other combat system. The RQ2 12 second round was described as covering a series of maneuvers, attacks and parries. The rolls just represented the ones that hit.

I think the combat system may have a more 'heroic' feel in the end. The not having to declare a parry until an attack is declared seems counter intuitive, but may work well. In RQ2 a rune level character faced by 5 trollkin was going to face some free attacks, no two ways about it (and trollkin can be dangerous, trust me - I know). Say the trollkins each have a 40% skill 2 actions and I have a 90% skill and 4 reactions, being a badass and all. In the new system there is a very good chance I will they will only score 4 hits, and I can apply my full parry to all of them, a far cry from RQ2/3. I don't really have a problem with this.

It is important that if one of the little buggers crits, and I miss my parry, he can take me down in one shot. If that changes the new rules will not feel like RQ to me.

Any rule change that makes it easier for a Rune Lord to kill a trollkin is all right with me though. :wink:
 
andakitty said:
Another question for those of us who have been lucky enough to play the game already. Simply, what happens if the attacker rolls a critical on both the initial and opposed rolls?

It rather depends on what the defender does realy and how well they do it.

If the defender is parrying, one of three thing depending on their success.

  • "Attack succeeds and becomes a crit (if it wasn't already!)" (defender fails)
    "Attack succeeds but parry weapon blocks for half its AP" (defender success)
    "Attack succeds but parry weapon blocks for its AP" (defender crit)

Dodging.


  • "Attack succeeds and becomes a crit (if it wasn't already!)" (defender fails)
    "Attack succeeds (still a crit)" (defender success)
    "Attack succeds but inflicts normal damage, defender forced to Give Ground" (defender crit)

All in all its bad for the defender, even of the defender pulls of a critical they still take a normal damage.

Its all good fun solid action. I'm itching to play again :D !
 
sarahnewton said:
Well, you could try the nifty battle magic (oops - RUNE magic) spell "Skybolt". This one's brilliant. For a mere 3MP you get to cause 3D6 damage on your opponent, IGNORING ARMOUR.
Wow, that's messed up. Did anyone playtest this game?

From experience, good old Zap Rat... err.. Disruption was damn good at 1d3!
 
Ah, ha. Second houserule. Double rolled damage on one critical, triple on two criticals. :twisted: And a table of Very Unfortunate Results. The one from Fifth Cycle, I think, or maybe SB1...
 
Itto said:
Its all good fun solid action. I'm itching to play again :D !

A question for you Itto (and forgive me if you have already stated this before): Did you play much of RQ2/3 previously.

I mean no disrespect - I am just trying to put your comments in perspective.

I remember when I was first turned on to RQ back in around '82 or '83. I had been playing D&D for about a year or two, and it was like a revelation to me - I had now idea that an rpg system could seem so real before RQ. I became a Chaosium junkie (I had CoC 2ed, Stormbriner 1st ed, Pendragon 1st.ed, Ringworld 1st ed., etc), and spread the word. I do not recall ever introducing anyone to a BRP game who did not like it over D&D.

I just cannot see how a D20 player would not be impressed by a version of BRP or a system derived from it once they try it. I CAN see how a die hard RQ fan has reservations based on the previews and what has been leaked on this board.

Again, I mean no disrespect, I am just trying understand your background to put your posts into perspective.

You are, after all, the only poster on this thread that I am aware of who has actually played the game. :D
 
Enpeze said:
So wishing this game to fail is totally shortsighted and against the interest of any true RQ/BRP fan. I am sure noone in this forum is that stupid.

Nope, I hope there will be some serious following in using these rules, though hopefully with some modification though.
After having tinkered with the d20 rules for some years, I have yearned for a BRP OGL system. Especially since BRP and BRP Clones in general are so easy to tinker with. They do not break if you change one rule or set of subrules, as d20 does.

My negative comments aside, I hope to find a solution to the problems that I percieve, so that I can go on and play the game.
 
andakitty said:
Ah, ha. Second houserule. Double rolled damage on one critical, triple on two criticals. :twisted: And a table of Very Unfortunate Results. The one from Fifth Cycle, I think, or maybe SB1...

On that I can only say; Ouch!

Good way to make the game more gritty though :)
 
Archer said:
After having tinkered with the d20 rules for some years, I have yearned for a BRP OGL system. Especially since BRP and BRP Clones in general are so easy to tinker with. They do not break if you change one rule or set of subrules, as d20 does..

I agree absolutely. One of the great strengths of BRP is its adaptibility. I am really looking forward to all the new source material from MRQ.
 
andakitty said:
Ah, ha. Second houserule. Double rolled damage on one critical, triple on two criticals. :twisted: And a table of Very Unfortunate Results. The one from Fifth Cycle, I think, or maybe SB1...

Let's streamline it...
Roll another damage die for a single critical, roll another character for a double crititical. :D

Triple damage in a fixed HP game?
Ouch!
Ouch!!
Arggh! (Thump!)

Hardly worth pulling out a table. More like roll 1D10 and find out how many pieces the body is in.
 
Dr. Halflight said:
I check this forum several times a day to get news on MRQ, because I'm really looking forward to it.

AND please, as a fan, I hope no one else posts they hope it dies a quick death.

Can we at least get widespread release of the game and SRD for anyone who's uncertain, before we strip the game bear?

How can you be a fan of it if you haven't seen it yet?




It looks like its still close to BRP, RQ2 or 3 & SB5, so it can at least supplement those games to some degree,

MRQ doesn't look that close to BRP/RQ/SB to everyone. There are enough differences that even the things that look similar might not be easy to port over. Generally, when coverting RPG material getting the right spirt and game effects are more important than havinng idential names and numbers. With the new opposed resultion system a 60% in MRQ might not mean the same as a 60% in BRP, and the value might need to be raised or lowered to get an equivalent effect.


AND its OGL, so anyone can "create" supplements or new combat systems for MRQ & do its similar heritage to the OTHER RQ/BRP derived games that already exist. If you don't like the combat CHANGE it and then put it on a web page or publish it.

Big deal. Anyone alway could create new combat systems, and other changes, and put it up on a webpage. GM's have been doing stuff like that since the second RPG session. THe only advantage from OGL is that "people" can print sourcebooks and sell them. This might mean something to other companies, but probably not to many GMs are publishing gaming supplements. Addionally, taking the time to rewrite the combat rules only makes sense if someone just loves the rest of the game. Otherwise it is just sort of silly to completey rewrite every section of an RPG.


Sorry for being snarky, but as much as some posters loathe MRQ, I'm LOOKING FORWARD to forming an opinion about it starting next tuesday.Doc

It looks like you have already formed an opinion about it, you are a self-confessed fan. Fanatic is hardly a netural opinion.
 
What happens if the defender's Parry skill is over 100% but the attacker skill isn't?


For example, what if that pesky trollkin with club @ 40% attacks Rurik, who parries at 120%?

If the Trollkin rolls under 40% do we make an opposed 20% vs. 60% parry roll?

Compare that to if the Trollkin was at 80% and Rurik had a 99% parry.

According to my math that gives the 40% trollkin five times the chance of getting success/success vs. failure than the 80% trollkin. All due to the defender improving his parry abilility by 21%.


It seems like going over 100% for defense is a penalty unless you are fight someone who can attack at over 100%
 
andakitty said:
Nah, same ratio.

My litty, becuase it isn't the ratio that is important, but the success chance. THink of what happens if you put two 10% fighter up against each other. THier ratio is 1 to 1. Throw two 50% fighters or two 100% up against each other and the ratio is still 1:1 but the chances of getting the results change.

For my trollkin vs. Rurik fight, the 40% trollkin has a 08% chance of rolling two successes, with a 40% chance of Rurik failing his parry for a 3.2% chance of getting a "scuccessful attack vs. failed parry" result.

The 80% trollkin going up against a 99% Rurik has a 64% chance of rolling two success, but only a 0.64% to get past a 99% parry. If MRQ has the 5% failure rate of RQ, then the chances are identical with the above example, 3.2%

So a poorer fighter, attacker a defender with greater skill has a better chance of getting past the defenses than a more skilled attacker vs. a less skilled defender. How does that make any sense?





andakitty said:
Maybe my critical damage houserule is a little much...if I were serious about it. :p

I don't know. You could also partner up with Malakor and start selling MRQ character sheets. Then triple damage could be profitable. :D
 
andakitty said:
Nah, same ratio.

Maybe my critical damage houserule is a little much...if I were serious about it. :p

Same ratio, true. But that doesn't change the fact that when my skill is 99% I have a 99% chance of successfully blocking some damage, and when I have a 120% skill my chance of blocking any damage at all becomes 60%.

You know, if everyone is going to use me for examples I am capable of fighting foes a bit tougher than Trollkin. I'm starting to feel like a bully. Big Bad Yelmalio going around picking on puny little Trollkin.
 
Rurik said:
You know, if everyone is going to use me for examples I am capable of fighting foes a bit tougher than Trollkin.

Not in MRQ, at least not according to the math.

Rurik said:
I'm starting to feel like a bully. Big Bad Yelmalio going around picking on puny little Trollkin.

Not true. All the examples involve the trollkin attacking Rurik. It's not your fault if the trollkin hasn't learned to stop making the same mistake. Probably a "food" trollkin.
 
Au contraire, my friends, you are not losing skill, as you think you are. It is all a matter of degree and matching skill...and a way to get around the sometimes endless attack/parry sequence, as someone pointed out earlier. At least I think so, from what I know. There are other ways to do that too. Subtracting percentiles over 100 from the opponents weapon skill, was it? You could always substitute something like that, and just use what parts of MRQ look useful to you. Or are you saying that there is no use for MRQ, that it is just Mongoose' unwanted redheaded stepchild? No flamebait, just mildly curious. :? ...and looking for a constructive, versus destructive, response. :)
 
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