Poseidon or 4 Raid worth of fighters?

[Taran]

I was just doing the math and I realized that with 4 raid points worth of fighters you get a LOT more than a mere 24 flights...

So, why would I want to spend the War point n the Poseidon when I could, instead, spend 2 raid on Avengers and 2 raid on fighters for 48 fighters and 2 fleet carriers, thus dividing my flight recovery between baskets, as it were...

Or I could forgo the carriers completely and just go with 64 fighters...

Are the abilities of the Poseidon worth that much reduction in firepower?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

That's for every man to decide for himself, my friend...

 

[CaptBavo]

When I'm playing Third age, I always prefer to take Avengers over a Poseidon. In Crusade you don't really have a choice.

I usually do not take lots of independent wings because of the Victory points of fighter flights at 1 VP per flight, 64 flights would be 64 vs. 10 VP for a Poseidon at a war level scenario.

 

[Greg Smith]

The command bonus and the dogfight bonus may well be worth it, as they affect your whole fleet.

 

[katadder]

look at it from the other angle. the posiedon is better at war level games for sure. yes at war level you can get 3 avengers and 4 fighter wings which spreads things out a bit but as greg said the command bonus is alot better and the posiedon has alot more firepower.

 

[Frohike]

So its swarm vs single big ship again, lol.

In a big game it is likely that the command bonus of +2 will be confered from other ships, so first off is that extra +1 required? (Assume taking a Warlock over Command Omega for obvious reasons).

Taking wings of fighters is silly purely due to the absolutely crazy number of VPs yielded. Thats almost a GW quality rule there (I should really take that back as its not fair to GW), tacked on with no thought - or certainly none that I can think of. If there is a valid explanation for this I would be happy to hear it btw.

Personally I would take 4 Avengers if possible, multiple redundancy of the Fleet Carrier trait could be very significant, along with the fact that the ships could be spread through out the table top maximising maximising the fighter recycling potential. Four of these bad boys also give you an extra 8 wings of fighters.

Edit: spelling, meh

 

[katadder]

posiedon is command +3 versus command +1 of avengers. it outranges the avenger in all arcs and down the broadsides has 20AD TL 8 of it AP compared toeven 4 avengers having 16AD. posideon also has anti-fighter rating which the avengers dont which can be more important when coming up against say Gaim or someone else fighter heavy.
as for independant fighter wings giving up VPs is probably to stop pure fighter swarms.

 

[No. 1 Bear]

I'm going to chip in here. I would take 4 Avengers. For the following reasons.

A posieden has less Damage than 4 Avengers.
With 4 Avengers you can fill the whole battle field with the recovery rule thing.
You can get the fighters out quicker.
Theres more fighters.
And Avengers just suit me better.

The last ones key. Try all three out and decide which one you like.

 

[Ripple]

I understand the idea to stop the pure fighter swarms given fighters got a bit of a boost again. I just feel it has to have a better solution.

Ripple

 

[David Anla Shok']

I'd take my Posidon. More useful and survivable all way around. You might recover lost flights and those you don't recover don't give victory points to the bad guys.
Toss one out there, hum the old Battlestar Galactica theme real loud and see what happens.

 

[wkehrman]

I'd take my Posidon. More useful and survivable all way around. You might recover lost flights and those you don't recover don't give victory points to the bad guys.
Toss one out there, hum the old Battlestar Galactica theme real loud and see what happens.

Against your Vree Basestar?

 

[David Anla Shok']

I'd take my Posidon. More useful and survivable all way around. You might recover lost flights and those you don't recover don't give victory points to the bad guys.
Toss one out there, hum the old Battlestar Galactica theme real loud and see what happens.

Against your Vree Basestar?

Interesting looking fight. Want to try it out? ;>

 

[Locutus9956]

The Vree win. Hands down. Way more firepower and more anti-fighter dice than god.

Frankly though carriers, even huge ones like the Posseidon, are support ships and in a one on one vs any battleship will lose I suspect.

Admittedly 24 T-Bbolts is alot of hurt but I suspect 10 dice of anti fighter will take them down reasonably quickly and the Z'Tymm itself is pretty damned tough at hull 6 with 80 hit points.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

The Thunderbolts can stand off outside AF range, though. So can the Tzymm, actually, but the Vree command saucer has a hell of a lot less fighters than the Poseidon does...

 

[katadder]

the vree command saucer however can sit out of range of the posiedon too.

 

[Locutus9956]

when you get right down to it though the Tbolts can sit outside AF range but if they do then less of them will be able to get in range at once and those that ARE able to fire give up some of their firepower. Id say your better of outright swarming and relying on your hull 6 to keep them alive long enough to batter the enemy and fleet carrier to recover some as they die.

I just dont think they will (short of very lucky crit rolling) siginifigantly dent the Saucer before its collossal firepower has torn the Posseidon to shreds. The Saucers manuevering capabilities should, as noted, leave the Posseidon mostly unable to fire its own weaponry and once the Posseidon is gone all those turreted guns can assist in the T-Bolt blasting. As for the Tzymms, well frankly Id say 4 of them isnt even worth launching as the EA will just eat them alive in one turn and then get on with the blasting. Still they might be worth it to slow up at least 4 T-Bolts for 1 turn I guess.....

Basically any way you slice it I suspect it would result in win by KO to the grey corner

 

[No. 1 Bear]

Why take Tzymms. Take the vree dogfighters to remove a few TBolts.

 

[wkehrman]

The T-bolts may be able to stay out of Anti-Fighter range, but the AM Cannon and AM Shredder are different stories entirely. 12 Super AP (needing 3's) and 20 Twin-Linked dice at the T-bolts? I may as well be facing E-mines! The only way the Posideon can survive is to stay outside 25 inches, which puts it at a disadvantage for recovering what's left of the T-bolt flights.

Then there are the 4 Xaar patrol boats David will be bringing.

No, I think I'll give that one a pass.

 

[Triggy]

I understand the idea to stop the pure fighter swarms given fighters got a bit of a boost again. I just feel it has to have a better solution.

Ripple

As far as I knew, the idea was just a hangover from first ed. that didn't end up getting changed (a few suggestions were bandied about though) - no real reason for it. It's something I hope is looked at in the future.

 

[David Anla Shok']

The Vree win. Hands down. Way more firepower and more anti-fighter dice than god.

Frankly though carriers, even huge ones like the Posseidon, are support ships and in a one on one vs any battleship will lose I suspect.

Admittedly 24 T-Bbolts is alot of hurt but I suspect 10 dice of anti fighter will take them down reasonably quickly and the Z'Tymm itself is pretty damned tough at hull 6 with 80 hit points.

In our last fight my T'zymm took a critical and lost its anti-fighter. A bad moment to be sure.