Playtesting vorlons.

[CZuschlag]

I'll pipe in as that person!

Seriously, do you really want to see the rotating turret stars of Saggitarius? Blleeachh!

I find that the Vorlon weakness is entirely based on weapon traits. Simply said, beams are poor weapons against Hull 4, and the low-end Vorlons end up seeing quite a lot of it against their Skirmish opponents. Beams aren't that fantastic here -- 2 dice of beam are, on the average, the same as 4 dice of minibeam against Hull 4! Beams are fairly good against Hull 5, as well. Against Hull 6, however, they shine ....

If you want to add a trick to the Vorlons as a dubious option that is nevertheless available, you may want to make a pulse mode available. Would be an interesting special rule for Vorlons (hint, hint!), but the balance is very hard and currently is very much out of scope.

 

[John Wall]

If the Crew Quality check is successful, this ship will double the Damage repaired by its Self-Repair trait in the End Phase. However, while it regenerates, it cannot make any attacks, and will be Adrift.

I'm going to add to the arguement against this rule as it stands. I just cannot see when I'm going to use it. If my main weapon is out of action, I want to get out of combat for a round, which means being able to turn the ship (and for the big guys thats hard enough). If we have just made a close range pass and I want to turn around, I can't use it. No attacks is fine by me, but running adrift means I wouldn't use the rule in most cases where I would be regenerating.

 

[Foxmeister]

I'm going to add to the arguement against this rule as it stands. I just cannot see when I'm going to use it.

Neither can I John, since I've only ever seen you field your cheesy Centauri!!!!

Regards,

Dave

 

[Da Boss]

Wont argue, on BIG Vorlon Vessels the new special action works great.

But how often in game are you likely to play with BIG ships?

Vorlon Light Cruisers turn up reasonable often as they are Beasts!

 

[Grunvald]

Apart from how we are running our current campaign, i hardly ever get to use light cruisers!

Current campaign map based allowing up to 4 fleets up to 8FAP at Battle!!

And yes i am using a fleet of 1 Heavy Cruiser and 2 Light cruiser's (Waves bye bye to the Narn fleet that went BOOM!).

 

[Grunvald]

I havent seen many surgestions on how to improve the "frigate" to make it a slightly better ship than just 2 transports stuck together.

So how about this : increase its anti fighter to 3 modify it self repair to D3+1 and maybe +1 AD
And instead of looseing Damage when 2 ships put together (as seems to be the case here) how about adding +5 (2 transports = 12+12=24+1 for being slightly bigger ie when stuck together needs a bit more glue!)

Vorlon Frigate (Vorlon Transport Variant) Raid

Speed: 10
Turn: 1/90o
Hull: 5
Damage: 25
Crew: -
Troops: -
Craft: None
Special Rules: Adaptive Armour, Advanced Anti-Fighter 3, Advanced Jump Engine, Flight Computer, Self-Repairing D3+1
In Service: Until 2261

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Discharge Gun 18 F 5 Beam, Double Damage, Precise

 

[Grunvald]

Been several comments about having a vorlon carrier so here a quick idea to run past ppl's.

Vorlon Carrier Battle

Speed: 8
Turn: 1/90o
Hull: 5
Damage: 30
Crew: -
Troops: -
Craft: 4 Vorlon Fighters
Special Rules: Adaptive Armour, Advanced Anti-Fighter 2, Advanced Jump Engine, Flight Computer, Self-Repairing D6, Fleet Carrier
In Service: Until 2261

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Discharge Gun 18 F 3 Beam, Double Damage, Precise

Cant remember off hand if fleet carrier works on purchased fighters or not, if not make special rule that fleet carrier ability work on all Vorlon fighters, but fighters recovered in this way cannot exceed the total carrying capacity of the carrier (ie if it recovers more than 4 it looses them, not enough space)

 

[Da Boss]

fleet carrier works on purchased just fine but can't exceed capacity - so thats good to go

The Frigate may be a bit good compared to the Destroyer - also probably should be a Corvette ? Frigates are bigger and more powerful aren't they - most powerful class of escort ship (yeah I know B5 has odd ship naming)

comparing the two

Frigate is 1" faster, has better AAF, nearly as good SR and only one dice less beam dice......

Destroyer gains on 10 damage and 1 dice Beam - not really enough when you can get 2 Frigates?

Carrier (something I feel fits the Vorlon game and they need - more so than another Armegdon ship)

Looks good but maybe for something unusual drop the beam even more (2AD) and give it the Escort trait - protecting its drones/ compatriots?

 

[Grunvald]

comparing the two

Frigate is 1" faster, has better AAF, nearly as good SR and only one dice less beam dice......

Destroyer gains on 10 damage and 1 dice Beam - not really enough when you can get 2 Frigates?

Bit unsure what u mean about the frigate!

At present speed is 10" so no difference

At present damage of frigate is 20

At present frigate gun is 18" destroyer is 24"

Keep looking at the frigate and am disapointed with it, it needs something to be altered to give it a certain umpf!!

As i've said before all i see is 2 transports stuck together with less damage so what is the point of it?

 

[Da Boss]

sorry I was comparing the destroyer and whilst the ranges are different I think 4 dice is prob enough beams at raid

the rest is ok but the Vorlons seem to increase AAF as they get bigger / older so its a bit odd to have it higher at raid than battle - unless of course it was a escort (with that trait)...............

I guess the point is to give the Vorlons a Raid option (esp with the new FAP) they would have had major problems. Its not very different to my Raid level Striker and seems ok to me..........but happy to hear more from proper Vorlon players?

The ramble about the name was just as I assume that the designations are human and it prob should be a Corvette (both in your version and the P+P version) as its a smaller ship than a Destroyer which is less powerful than a Frigate? Not that it really matters as B5 usually ignores all these conventions :lol:

I do like the Carrier - it would prob see more use at Battle than my War version

 

[Grunvald]

Now it makes more sense!

OK how about leaving the AD at 4 but giving it AF 4 (maybe) and Escort!

Also been pondering the SA Regenerate, how about this for the lower lvl ships: if has a SR rate of 1 gains a D3 to repair for that turn, SR rate of 2 (frigate) gains a D6 to self repair for the turn!

 

[Ripple]

Conventions change over time as roles change...

That said I like the idea of an escort trait, be nice to have a role for a Vorlon ship other than 'carry giant beam!'

Ripple

 

[Grunvald]

Agreed, roles for ships change over time, that is where "variant's" usually come from.

And lets face it the vorlons have been around for a long time!

So when you keep facing "transport ships" and the new larger "Frigate" you wonder what have they been doing with all their time?

I mean the shadows have been around about the same amount of time as the vorlons and they actually have a variant ship (2 if you count young and ancient shaodow ship).

So it isnt far fetched to think that the frigate, although seems to be in gerenal a cargo carrier for the vorlons where the transport is as its name surgest's, would be able to defend itself and other ships as well!

Quote:
Often confused as transports by admirals who are inexperienced in fighting Vorlon fleets, the frigate has noticeably greater firepower, and is capable of waging small battles on its own. Within the larger Vorlon fleet, the frigate is used to screen cruisers and dreadnoughts while they attack the largest enemy vessels.

What better way to "screen" over ships than by taking the flack from them and giving enemy fighters a kick in the teeth to boot!

 

[captainsmirk]

The ramble about the name was just as I assume that the designations are human and it prob should be a Corvette (both in your version and the P+P version) as its a smaller ship than a Destroyer which is less powerful than a Frigate? Not that it really matters as B5 usually ignores all these conventions

No in general destroyers are bigger than frigates, unless your talking about the present Royal Navy which does indeed have frigates larger than its destroyers, but the RN designates based on role not size, Destroyers are Anti-Aircraft escorts, Frigates Anti-submarine (although moving towards multi-role these days). And the new Type-45 destroyers will be as large as WW2 cruisers.


Nick

 

[Da Boss]

thanks

 

[captainsmirk]

As for the unusually nomenclature used for Earthforce ships (the Omega and Warlock specifically) I have no problem with it, in fact I think the mistake made was not continuing with it when designating the alien races ships.

Ship designations have changed repeatedly in their meaning over the years. Take the term frigate that was originally (in the age of sail) just a smaller version of a line-of-battle-ship intended for long range patrols, with the introduction of steam this role became the cruiser as the line-of-battle-ship became the battleship.

In WW2 the Royal Navy reintroduced the frigate (and in fact the corvette as well) as small cheap anti-submarine escorts. This shows how changes in technology can effect the meaning of ship designations, what effect would a switch from water-bound naval vessels to interstellar spaceships result it?

Worth noting that up until the Omega Earthforce doesn't have any ships designated as destroyers, suggesting that the term has gone out of use but been reintroduced to cover this new ship class. (Although today the destroyer is the mainline warship of most navies very much as the Omega becomes for EF...)


Nick

 

[Grunvald]

Been going through other races carriers, and as far as i can see they all get 8 flights of fighters and some getting a flyer (minbari) or something!

Under the carrier idea i threw up i only put in 4 fighters at battle level, now is this too high a level, if so reduce 1 level and reduce dam and weapon, or increase craft number?

 

[Da Boss]

I don't thinks its that bad as it stands as it as a competant warship - maybe give it the same- lsightly more damage (40?) as the Destroyer (It can then be a variant - no need for a new model?)

 

[Grunvald]

Hhmmm wasn't thinkin of it as a competant warship, more of a roll filler between the skirmish and battle level, not necessarily the raid hole filler but something close!

If going for a Destroyer varient / carrier ship that grew differently keep weapon range the same but drop some AD, and loose some dam gain craft!

Vorlon Carrier Battle

Speed: 9
Turn: 1/90o
Hull: 5
Damage: 30
Crew: -
Troops: -
Craft: 4 Vorlon Fighters
Special Rules: Adaptive Armour, Advanced Anti-Fighter 2, Advanced Jump Engine, Flight Computer, Self-Repairing D6, Fleet Carrier
In Service: Until 2261

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Discharge Gun 24 F 4 Beam, Double Damage, Precise

If going for a more Carrier specific roll than a varient of the destroyer, almost same as original post but 5 less dam and 2 more craft!

Vorlon Carrier Raid

Speed: 8
Turn: 1/90o
Hull: 5
Damage: 25
Crew: -
Troops: -
Craft: 6 Vorlon Fighters
Special Rules: Adaptive Armour, Advanced Anti-Fighter 2, Advanced Jump Engine, Flight Computer, Self-Repairing D6, Fleet Carrier
In Service: Until 2261

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Discharge Gun 18 F 3 Beam, Double Damage, Precise

Hate myself now cause i like both of these results, Battle could be as suggested a Destroyer variant, Raid could be a possible Frigate varient!

 

[No. 1 Bear]

I feel something thats just a fighter whore would be better as a carrier.

Raid lv.

So:

Speed: 4
Turn: 1/45o
Hull: 5
Damage: 20
Crew: -
Troops: -
Craft: 10 Vorlon Fighters
Special Rules: Adaptive Armour, Advanced Anti-Fighter 2, Advanced Jump Engine, Flight Computer, Self-Repairing 2, Carrier 4, Fleet Carrier
In Service: Until 2261

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Discharge Gun 18 F 1 Beam, Double Damage, Precise

If this was at raid it would be good. This would be the carrier for me. Not a roll filler a quintesential carrier.