Playtesting vorlons.

[Grunvald]

Seeing that many fighter flights on a carrier especially at Raid and the phrase "S*** the bed!" comes to mind!

Except the big lumbering behemoths of the vorlon fleet all ships tend (at the mo) to have 90o turn and would probabley have at least around spd 6".

Knock off 2 fighters and give it a 2nd beam and that would be nice!

 

[Ripple]

Don't know why folks are so afraid of the 1 AD beam... if you actually look at your beam dice as a whole rather than one ship, it shouldn't make any difference where you beam dice come from.

As to ten flights on a raid level ship... doesn't bother me as long as the rest of the ship reflect it. This is a slow, unmaneuverable beast... so maybe 10 is okay. I hate seeing us fall into set patterns of 'raids get eight fightes' skirmish get 4 flights... this is where the dreaded cookie cutterism starts.

Ripple

 

[Grunvald]

All vorlon ships apart from fighters get at least 2 AD of beam, seems to be some kind of standard, and them being an Ancient race have a high mastery of beam technology.

Having 10 fighters on board a Raid ship (although i'd love it) cant see it happening due to the fact every fighter has 1AD beam precise!

Also being slow and unmanoverable at such a low level doesnt match in with the rest of vorlon ship tech to date!

Unless it has uber long range guns with massive amounts of damage what the point of it being so slow, and with 1 arc and short range makes it even worse at trying to defend itself!

 

[B5freak]

I really like the idea of having a Raid level carrier for the Vorlons. Maybe make two Raid choices, with one being a carrier variant of the other.

 

[silashand]

I really like the idea of having a Raid level carrier for the Vorlons. Maybe make two Raid choices, with one being a carrier variant of the other.

I like this idea. Two raid level options would be a great thing I think.

Cheers, Gary

 

[sidewinder]

For the vorlon dreadnaught, I would have made it ancient level and just made it like 2 HC's put together. Anything else just doesnt do it justice. In the RPG the vorlon dreadnaught is suppose to be second only to the planet killer.

 

[Ripple]

Think of the carrier as dedicated to its role as a flight mother rather than a war ship. Thus it doesn't follow the same design rules as the ships that are supposed to be the fast maneuvering escorts. This is a ship that would be neatly secured in hyper or sitting with the heavy cruisers.

The concept that I guess I would like to see a bit more is that the fleets of each race actually design a ship for a role, rather than try to horn a role into the design philosophy of a race. Look at the Drazi, why would they make an electronic warfare platform with bore sited weapons? What is this ship supposed to do with them? As a fleet element it should be dodging away and keeping its sensors online as long as possible, but it was designed as a veritable clown piece due to the idea that all drazi ships have to have the same basic designs.

Why build and escort that can't defend itself from fighters?

Ripple

 

[Grunvald]

Think of the carrier as dedicated to its role as a flight mother rather than a war ship. Thus it doesn't follow the same design rules as the ships that are supposed to be the fast maneuvering escorts. This is a ship that would be neatly secured in hyper or sitting with the heavy cruisers.

OK that would be a nice ship for large scale games where it can be protected by the larger ships, but in the majority scale games that are played it would end up sitting at the back of the table doing nothing, so what would the "fleet carrier" trait be used for then except for a lucky roll every so often.

A Fleet carrier is used more effective when used in conjunction with its fighters being in range to get any bonus that it can give to its (or any other) fighters! As well as a couple of surporting ships that is!

 

[katadder]

I dont see carriers being very vorlon. vorlon fighters just accompanied the big ships. at most they would have some sort of ability like the shadows carrying fighters within themselves but again I dont really see this happening.

one thing we I did try to get for vorlons was from battle level upwards every ship was accompanied by fighter flights. 2 at battle, 3 war, 4 arma as you never see big vorlon ships without fighters flying around and about.

 

[Grunvald]

I dont see carriers being very vorlon. vorlon fighters just accompanied the big ships. at most they would have some sort of ability like the shadows carrying fighters within themselves but again I dont really see this happening.

one thing we I did try to get for vorlons was from battle level upwards every ship was accompanied by fighter flights. 2 at battle, 3 war, 4 arma as you never see big vorlon ships without fighters flying around and about.

So under campaign rules for the vorlon ship personalities you can become "maternal" and gain a flight of fighters, unlimited number by the way, so when you get high enough you might as well say that it is a carrier!

The campaign advancments surgest that vorlon (or shadow as case may be) do grow and change as time goes on, so as surgested in a previous post that a ship would grow into a certain roll i can see vorlons having ships that are for all intent purposes "carriers"

I can guess what happened to your suggestion for having fighters accompany the vorlon ship, gone the way of the dodo!!

Nice idea though pitty it never came to pass!

 

[Pawnographer]

I dont see carriers being very vorlon. vorlon fighters just accompanied the big ships. at most they would have some sort of ability like the shadows carrying fighters within themselves but again I dont really see this happening.

one thing we I did try to get for vorlons was from battle level upwards every ship was accompanied by fighter flights. 2 at battle, 3 war, 4 arma as you never see big vorlon ships without fighters flying around and about.

Actually the idea of Vorlon ships carrying fighters has happened. In the Campaign rules (p. 135 Fleet Lists) a Vorlon ship can gain a "maternal" personality and carry a flight of fighters. Katadder;s suggestion is not such a radical departure and a good suggestion. The Vorlons are vulnerable to swarm fleets (even based upon the new FAP based upon a test game with the Vree). The reason for the fighters is to protect the rears of the big Vorlon ships. The Vorlons are not stupid and should understand something about fleet tactics.

 

[Ripple]

Keep in mind we also don't see anything but Vorlon expeditionary fleets.

We never see anything not designed for long range attack.

I could easily see maternal ships hanging around the home worlds protecting the young ships, short endurance ships with bigger guns but needing local stars or tenders to feed, immature versions of the other ships that are tad pole like to frogs, different in form and function until ready to grow into full warships.

Katadder, you seem to have a very limited view of what the Vorlons do. I liked your suggestion, but not so sure I agree with your general assumption about the fighters.

Why do you assume that the fighters around the Vorlons ships are not launched from it as a CAP? We really don't see the Vorlons caught by surprise, and being boy scout types they are they could easily have launched them before emerging from hyper, so they don't waste time.

They don't have to fear hyper the way humans do (they make pocket dimensions) so why not have some launched in hyper. I assume the EA launches at the beginning to avoid losing any to hyper.

Anyway... just saying that there are lots of options, we know nothing of the Vorlons... but in a campaign we can assume we're chasing them to their homes...

Grumvald -

Fleet carrier still boosts dogfight.

Any save is better than none.

And it could appear in a number of sizes of battles. It just wouldn't choose to be in any but larger fights. But as the shadows found out when the Vorlons ambushed them, sometimes the fight chooses you.

Against a race that doesn't have much in the range of long range weapons could have this ship in close support of the flights that are protecting the ships. Even against long range if folks want to target your carrier rather than you beam ships, more power to them.

Ripple

 

[Da Boss]

agree with all that

 

[Grunvald]

Grumvald -

Fleet carrier still boosts dogfight.

Any save is better than none.

I guessin that means me :lol:

I dont remember mentioning that it didn't boost dogfight!

Ok i agree that any save is better than no save never said otherwise), but having a roll of 5+ is better than a 6, and when used in conjunction with a close escorting carrier you can sometimes get it to a 4+, and being up close means that rescued fighters can be back in combat that much quicker!

 

[katadder]

although 1 on 1 vorlon fighters have that nice anti-fighter to help them before any dogfights start.

 

[Grunvald]

although 1 on 1 vorlon fighters have that nice anti-fighter to help them before any dogfights start.

Only in the first round of dog fight!!!

And if you move into an enemy fighter (you being vorlon) you don't get it!!!

 

[katadder]

true but why would you move your own fighters into a dogfight when they are much better at anti-shipping.

 

[Grunvald]

True but there are plenty of times when you dont have a lot of choice with what to shoot or attack!!!

 

[Da Boss]

although 1 on 1 vorlon fighters have that nice anti-fighter to help them before any dogfights start.

Only in the first round of dog fight!!!

And if you move into an enemy fighter (you being vorlon) you don't get it!!!

Is that last bit true or not - without derailing the thread was it not the source of large amount of unresolved debate on the Rulesmasters thread - a bit like the recovery of Rutarians from Balvarins...............(and firebolts and .........)

 

[Grunvald]

I'll be honest and say i'm not sure but it how i've been playing it for a while!

Thiunk it wrong though!!!