Playtest Rules 1.1 - Centauri

[Everyman]

While I will not get a chance to actually try the new changes out till tonight, at first glance I would have to say that the hunting pack rules went from too powerful to just plain silly.

Conceptually the whole idea of a hunting pack does not really imply a bunch of little ships swarming around a big one no matter what the new flavor text attempts to convince us.

The new rules will not help against anything that I mentioned in my play tests or give anyone a reason to play the Primus still. Now shots will just be redirected to a dodge based Liati or Stealth based Dargan. Comm disruptors are still of little use against the packs. At least you can gamble on scouts by scouting the big ship now I suppose.

I also still advocate only lowering the Demos's ion cannons to 8 AD rather than 6.

 

[Da Boss]

Haven't tried the new version yet - although I still like my Gravitic Engines

 

[Burger]

I thought it was meant to work the other way round: small ships protect a larger one?

 

[No. 1 Bear]

yeh but then that would make an untouchable liati which would be plain wrong. can you imagine a 5 maximus permantly taking the damge for the liaiti

 

[stepan.razin]

Liati, Maximus, and that little stealth 4+ scouts..--- oh, so wrong, it must be right!!!!! I wouldn't loose, EVER... I dont even need to bring dice!

Me: "These three are a pack"
My Opponent: "Good game, lets have a beer"

 

[silashand]

Two thoughts:

1. As others have mentioned this doesn't sound like a "wolfpack" idea at all and it functions in exactly the opposite manner as one would expect.

2. If we're including big ships here, I thought the idea was to *encourage* their use? I mean, I can try it, but I really don't like the idea of a battle level ship with a bunch of skirmish ones and it's the one trying to protect *them*.

Just my initial thoughts anyway.

Cheers, Gary

 

[Lord David the Denied]

In actual fact, a wolf pack was a group of U-boats banding together to attack a large allied convoy. There's really no need for special rules for a pack of Centauri ships operating together beyond the current squadron rules. My suggestion of forming packs on the fly and then breaking apart to avoid large enemies is useful but not overpowered in my opinion, and is really the only way I can see to "better" represent a wolf pack of ships in this game.

 

[silashand]

My suggestion of forming packs on the fly and then breaking apart to avoid large enemies is useful but not overpowered in my opinion, and is really the only way I can see to "better" represent a wolf pack of ships in this game.

Or even simpler, just give Centauri ships of Skirmish level and lower the Gaim's Dynamic Squadrons rule and be done with it. Keeps things consistent without being too OTT.

I like the idea of wolfpacks, but I think the Centauri would be better served with something for the big ships.

Cheers, Gary

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Or even simpler, just give Centauri ships of Skirmish level and lower the Gaim's Dynamic Squadrons rule and be done with it. Keeps things consistent without being too OTT.

I like the idea of wolfpacks, but I think the Centauri would be better served with something for the big ships.

Cheers, Gary

I agree. My suggestion for a big-ship rule didn't exactly meet with resounding approval, but I've yet to see any better idea put out there.

I'd like to see the Primus, Octurion and Adira get heavy ion cannons instead of their ion cannons, just to give them more punch against ships in their own tonnage range. That'd make them more desirable than the oft-lamented Liati or buying down.

 

[stepan.razin]

IMHO, the Centauri dont need anything else. The Demos is now a good Skirmish choice instead of being an average Raid choice (for the price of a skirmish of course).

The new Carrier is huge for the centauri since it covers a well known weakness of the fleet (lack of fighters).

Extra advantages will just carry a risk of putting them over the top in the hands of an unscrupulous player. But if you really must have a rule, how about this:

CQ check: Automatic.
The centauri ships turn on additional outside lights to show of the new coat of fresh purple paint! All centauri vessels may automatically feel superior to all non-centauri vessels.

(you may even justify it by pointing to the show and how there were external lights on ships, blah blah blah)

 

[silashand]

But if you really must have a rule, how about this:

CQ check: Automatic.
The centauri ships turn on additional outside lights to show of the new coat of fresh purple paint! All centauri vessels may automatically feel superior to all non-centauri vessels.

Sweet!!!!! That is the best Centauri rule I've seen yet! Can I use it now?

Cheers, Gary

 

[Greg Smith]

The only thing is you have to have lights on your model. Like this.

 

[silashand]

Looks more in scale if you do it with fiber optics. Wish I could find the pics of a friend of mine's who did that a while back on one of his BFG ships. Looked really wicked. Only problem is he screwed up on the first one and mounted the battery inside the model instead of in the base (he did the base on a subsequent one). Now it's burned out and he hasn't the inclination to tear the ship apart to redo it ;-).

Only drawback with ACtA is all the models are metal so in some cases you'd have to do some serious hollowing out to make it work, though I think Vree ships might be one of the easier ones to do it with.

Cheers, Gary

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Thinking about it in that semi-conscious haze just after waking up this morning (such as it is) it seems to me the Centauri have been well treated in P&P. We get the Amar back, so there isn't really much need for a fancy new rule that no one can agree on. Unless someone can come up with something fair and balanced, I for one would be satisfied with our Guardian Arrays, the Amar carrier and maybe a named admiral...

 

[katadder]

glad you like the amar.
my vote is for the CA on larger ships that daboss suggested. make it CQ8 for the fact they take an automatic engine crit.
not overpowered, makes large ships more manouvrable in keeping with centauri doctrine and has a drawback.

 

[CZuschlag]

Some variant of Da Boss' idea is pretty cool. And this Amar doesn't stink, like the Sky Full of Stars one (probably the worst ship in that entire book .... and that says something!).

 

[Cavalier1645]

While I will not get a chance to actually try the new changes out till tonight, at first glance I would have to say that the hunting pack rules went from too powerful to just plain silly.

Conceptually the whole idea of a hunting pack does not really imply a bunch of little ships swarming around a big one no matter what the new flavor text attempts to convince us.

The new rules will not help against anything that I mentioned in my play tests or give anyone a reason to play the Primus still. Now shots will just be redirected to a dodge based Liati or Stealth based Dargan. Comm disruptors are still of little use against the packs. At least you can gamble on scouts by scouting the big ship now I suppose.

I also still advocate only lowering the Demos's ion cannons to 8 AD rather than 6.

My feeling on my beloved Centauri is that the centauri really don't need adjusting. I like as they are. Here is my feeling on the Play test rules

The Amar frigate- Intresting, never used fighters much (probably never will) But it is a new option for centauri

The Hunting pack rules- need some work but could be useful.

Demos downgrade ion cannon to 6- Why? The vorchan has 10 dice with its ion cannon and the only diffrence between it and demos is one intercetor. Seems like the people feel it need to be nerf just have good tactics to counter it.

If anything the Centauri need is a good battle Level ship to replace the primus.

 

[Greg Smith]

Demos downgrade ion cannon to 6- Why? The vorchan has 10 dice with its ion cannon and the only diffrence between it and demos is one intercetor.

The Demos can also spend every other turn on Close Blast Doors, this along with the interceptor makes it far more robust than the Vorchan.

 

[Da Boss]

While I will not get a chance to actually try the new changes out till tonight, at first glance I would have to say that the hunting pack rules went from too powerful to just plain silly.

Conceptually the whole idea of a hunting pack does not really imply a bunch of little ships swarming around a big one no matter what the new flavor text attempts to convince us.

The new rules will not help against anything that I mentioned in my play tests or give anyone a reason to play the Primus still. Now shots will just be redirected to a dodge based Liati or Stealth based Dargan. Comm disruptors are still of little use against the packs. At least you can gamble on scouts by scouting the big ship now I suppose.

I also still advocate only lowering the Demos's ion cannons to 8 AD rather than 6.

My feeling on my beloved Centauri is that the centauri really don't need adjusting. I like as they are. Here is my feeling on the Play test rules

The Amar frigate- Intresting, never used fighters much (probably never will) But it is a new option for centauri

The Hunting pack rules- need some work but could be useful.

Demos downgrade ion cannon to 6- Why? The vorchan has 10 dice with its ion cannon and the only diffrence between it and demos is one intercetor. Seems like the people feel it need to be nerf just have good tactics to counter it.

If anything the Centauri need is a good battle Level ship to replace the primus.

Never used fighters - how strange as we have some of the best in the game - the Amar seems a fun addition especially since we have:

Razik superb interceptor of enemy fighters (esp with Fleet carrier +4 dogfight), Sentri - good all rounder and Rutarian - very nasty in all areas.

Hunting pack - I don't like but I am bais cos I prefer my Gravitic Engines - or perhaps we should call it "Damn the engines, bring us about".

Demos has always been too good - 6-8 AD is about right,

We have three excellent and one good battle level ships who perform their speific roles with style and overwhelming firepower - what do you think we are missing - I can't think of anything but you may see something I have missed?

We have a tank - Primus, super fast and agile hunter killer - Liati, stealthy strike Cruiser - Dargan and specialised ship for planetary invasion - Secondus. I used to not like the Primus but have warmed to it.

Our only really weak ship (and not that weak - its not a fireraptor) is the Octurion - give it a 24" beam (and maybe an interceptor) and it would be great. Perosnally I'd love a second war level choice but hey......

8)

 

[Lord David the Denied]

The beam isn't the issue with the Octurion and I strongly disagree with more weapon stat discrepancies. All battle lasers should have the same basic stats and only vary on AD numbers and the same should be true of all weapons throughout the game.

What the Octurion needs is more firepower against ships in its own class. Currently the Centauri are reliant on the widely-hated small ships like the Vorchan and Demos to seriously threaten enemy capital units. An ion cannon just doesn't get the hits against hull 6 targets to be ship-killers, never mind defences like shields and interceptors found on some opponents.

Drop the silly matter cannons and upgrade the ion cannons to heavy ion cannons. AP, TL is a lot better than TL. It could even get a battery of forward-arced plasma accelerators to threaten larger ships. It's a battleship but currently can't perform the role of a battleship. Increasing the range on the beam won't solve that.