Playtest Rules 1.1 - Centauri

[Foxmeister]

But, Da Boss, you always test against a control, not another experiment. That's the point of an experiment; you always test against a known quantity.

It's a playtest - for some, the emphasis is going to be on the play, for others it may be the more mechanical testing!

However, either way, in the absence of any formal testing methodology, and any standard means of reporting test results, all results are essentially anecdotal anyway, and also largely subjective.

That being said, whilst I do understand your point, I don't see any issue testing two new rules together. In my experience, many of the issues with ACTA are down to two or more rules, which are fine individually, interacting in ways which produce poor results - boresight and initiative being the prime example of this.

Assuming all these rules when through to P&P unchanged, this is perfectly representative of an ideal ACTA game and therefore how it works *as a game* is actually more important than how each new rule works individually.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Da Boss]

Hey Ripple, CZ

To be honest I fancied a game of ACTA and as Greg and I are both working 6 day weeks at present (give or take) it was more a "fun" game than a intensive record to play and see how some of the new rules worked in reality

We played the game - it was much fun and had a chat about things and how they interacted - how the ships felt to play against and with. Not at all scientific but it was interesting..........I just thought I would share experiences!?

no worries as I didn't take the remarks as snarky

 

[Greg Smith]

I kind of agree with Czushlag. A lot of my 2e testing was done agianst the same 5-point raid EA fleet.

However, it isn't always the end result that we are looking at. It was possible to see how a Centauri hunting pack performed in the early turns. It was possible to see how the Narn CBD worked whether it was against unchanged ships or against ships in a hunting pack.

 

[silashand]

Because some races are not changing (seen any pak'ma'ra updates lately?)

The last I heard that someone (Matt?) posted here was that he was still thinking of updates for those fleets that weren't getting anything in the current playtest doc. That they don't exist now doesn't mean they won't or aren't changing. Sorry, your qed is more qeo (quad erat opinion) ;-).

Cheers, Gary

 

[Ripple]

he is looking for something, but we're getting fairly close to locking out I would think.

It was stated most things were supposed to be minor and cool rather than large scale enhancements with the exceptions of a few races. That's one of the big reasons that 'hunting pack' is questionable. It's a significant upgrade to a race that is suffering no large scale issues now, and helps the strongest ships in the race.

Similar issue with the Narn... the CBD doesn't help the worst ships (ones that get crit'ed out regularly) and does help the strongest (big weapons that tend to die early now stay).

Ripple

 

[silashand]

That may be true, however, my point stands. If *all* fleets are getting an update/boost then then is no "control group" to test against and the only solution is to test all of them against the new changes and balance from that point forward. CZ's supposition that all playtesting has to be done against an external control group is just plain wrong. Much of scientific research actually creates and/or determines the control group within the experiment itself. IMO that's where P&P falls due to the wide number of changes, updates, etc. that are being implemented.

Cheers, Gary

 

[CZuschlag]

We have repeatedly recommended that the Dilgar changes extend to adding a Thorun to the Ochliavita, and removing the Alpha Strike; the special action makes the game harder for large ships, which is the absolute reverse of where we are going.

So, to within a Thorun per Ochliavita, the Dilgar are a control group.

Brakiri are, as published, even with their special rule, a control group. Seriously, before the Haltana, how many times did you fire two Gravitic Shifters at one target --- ever!?

 

[Ripple]

While there may not be a true, unaltered, control group, there are certainly enough ships out there that are changing in very minor ways. The Minbari are completely unchanged against a fighter light opponent.

The issue was playing with a couple of the biggest changes together wasn't something I would do for testing, but maybe for fun and 'feel' experimenting. We often do 'what would have happened here if we were playing with...' type things during play.

Ripple