Plasma Torpedos vs. Drones

[Captain Jonah]

Well said sir, well said.

And Plasmas are huge balls of burning death that will eat your ships and Drones are annoying little kicks that if used in a big enough pack become dangerous.

Still there is something that can be proudly said by both the Plasma races and the Drone races.

We are not HYDRAN :twisted:

 

[andypalmer]

Still there is something that can be proudly said by both the Plasma races and the Drone races.

We are not HYDRAN :twisted:

Good thing, too. Otherwise, who would we use all those Gatling phasers on 8)

 

[Nomad]

We are not HYDRAN

Speak for yourself. 8)

 

[Sgt_G]

ScoutDad, what I was trying to say (and appearantly did not word very well) is the Romulans are not required to ever use their cloak if they don't want. Not saying it's a good idea. But early on, someone posted in another topic thinking that the Romulans could not rearm Plasma Torps unless they cloaked first, which it not true of course.

 

[eldiablito]

From my reading and a couple of simulations. I get the impression that cloaking and plasma doesn't fire all that often (when played conservatively).

So, assuming that a warbird decloaks & fires (turn 1 of the assault). It cloaks next turn (turn 2), reloads (turn 3). So, if the warbird is set up perfectly, it can fire on the fourth turn! That isn't very often and assumes that the warbird can (or should) cloak whenever possible.

I can see warbirds often setting up waves that try to completely eliminate separated ships. So you could have 2 or 3, small wings of hunting packs. The opposing force better keep each other covered so that no one becomes a potential target.

 

[GalagaGalaxian]

True, but remember, they don't have to cloak, and the Hawk and Kestrel ships seem quite capable of slugging it out without having to rely on the cloak.

Eagles are much more fragile of course.

 

[Sgt_G]

Exactly what I was saying. It's a tactical decision whether or not to cloak. Is it smart to, or to not to? Well, it is if you win, and it's not if you lose.

 

[Keeper Nilbog]

played my first game in a drone heavy environment (600pt - Klink vs Kzinti, 4 ships each. Didn't use terrain, so that could/did have an effect).

As the IDF requires a QC, first few turns i used 'Boost Shield' on the Klink's (with a F5 flying IDF covering the pack), keeping F Arc to the Kzinti - no QC so a better option from my point (2D6 boost due to front shield rule). Each turn, one ship recieved 16 drones, and whilst emptying it's ADD on the first turn in its defense, by turn 3 it was near crippled (on average, of the 16 drones fired (4 groups of 4), i could deal with around 8 or so, so was taking the 8D6 for devastating damage with no response (until turn 2 - disruptors only. Oh, that's right, the Kzinti had disruptors too).

I had trying out the Gorn the night before, and am happy to say that a lot of my concerned over the Gorn fleet were kind of settled. Not so with the Kzinti. I Know drones are a powerful weapon in the core systems (12dam weapons, nastier than overloaded Photon's), but with all the defensive options availible, defensive actions won't protect a ship from fleet bombardment (16 torps - 56dam average - D6 = 3.5), dead cruiser).

So, what defensive options/actions are out there ? I'm not giving up, as only one game does not a good sample make, but options would be nice. 2 people i've played with suggested that Drones do 1D3 dam (or 1D3+1), so that things didn't need changing.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Hide behind terrain such as Dust or Asteroids, you can fire into or out of but not through. Though the Drone chuckers are generally mobile enough to negate terrain fairly fast.

Phasers and tractors which you will never have enough of.

ADDs which even with the never ending Fed ones will run down against Kzinti fleets. 6 or 7 Kzinti will empty a Fed 4 dice G rack if the Fed player lets them.

Cloaks but if you are de-cloaked and try to cloak you become target of the turn for every Drone chucker in range sice you get a 4+ stealth but NO defensive fire.

D-Racks, like ADDs but reloadable except that only one Rom ship (and NO Gorn ships )has them so far.

Your shields and boosting them.

IDF has a crew check which massively reduces its usefulness. Also any ship that makes it while others around it do not becomes target of the turn. If you had one F5 on IDF the Kzinti should have blown it away as soon as they had the range since it can cover other ships but no one could cover it.

Over all the best defense against Kzinti is to kill the furballs as fast as you can since a Kzinti fleet with a pack of 4 frigates and a few heavies will kill one of your ships every turn they can see you.

Drones are horrible to face in fleets when the Kzinti are around, otherwise even with the Feds they are annoying but not so bad (Fed drone chucker specials not included here).

 

[GalagaGalaxian]

Personally, faced with a Kzinti Frigate pack whole insists on staying at standoff range, I'd accept that casaulties are inevitable and that I must just endeavor to close as fast as possible. In other words.

"DAMN THE DRONES! FULL SPEED AHEAD!"

APE! Is IMO your best bet against a Kzinti who wants to just hang back and lob drones, for non Klingons I'd recommend turning at the end of the move so that his fleet is out of your front arc so you can get those dodge chances. Klingons might want to just trust in their double-front shields. Unfortunately larger Gorn ships lack the turning ability to potentially use this tactic (the HDD/BDD can use it just fine though).

I definitely recommend including one or two Fast ships. They can move a blistering 21" under All Power to Engines, so he will either have to focus fire on the Fast Ship(s) giving the rest of your fleet to advance, or ignore it, in which case he's got a ship or two in his face picking off frigates.

As Gorn, I'd probably try to just rush ahead, use terrain where possible, and trust in your shields, tractors, and phasers to lessen the damage. Once you get in range Plasma will slaughter the little kitty frigates. Especially Frigates, who don't have a lot of phasers.

Fleet composition would be the usual HDD pack with a few heavier ships, except I might trade the usual CMs/CC for Velociraptor BCFs. They only has two Plasma-S but that is probably enough to give a Kitty a bad day, a Z-FF can only muster a maximum of 4 phasers (6 when centerlined) against the G-BCF's 8 AD of plasma, and probably will only stop 3.

Anyways, would this work? I have no idea! But it is what I'd try.

 

[MongooseMatt]

APE! Is IMO your best bet against a Kzinti who wants to just hang back and lob drones,

Boosting Shields is worth a look for fleets like the Federation who, when rolling 2 or 3 dice are effectively countering 2-3 drones with the Special Action alone. Added to the other various anti-drone gubbins their ships carry, they can weather an astonishing amount of drone fire even if they are just crawling across the table.

 

[GalagaGalaxian]

Can a Fed ship weather the 32ish drones a 1000 point Kzinti frigate-heavy fleet can bring to bear? Maybe something like a Kirov (with those delicious 30 point shields), but a smaller ship? I am doubtful. Though I admit the APE charge is less appealing for the feds, who would either have to choose between their phasers or the Drone switched to ADD mode.

But yeah, I don't think Boosting shields is the best idea. That is 1-3 d6 worth of extra shields, which means "on average" stopping an extra 3 drones (since they do d6 damage each). For a fed fleet I'd probably try to use Intensify Defensive Fire while moving the normal 12 inches. Sure only half(ish) will make the CQ check, but those extra phasers will probably stop more drones than the shield boost would (Assuming he concentrates on one ship).

Would still pack a CF/NCF or two to give him something to worry about though. The DWD could be interesting too.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Can a Fed ship weather the 32ish drones a 1000 point Kzinti frigate-heavy fleet can bring to bear?

Not to state the obvious, but _no_ ship should be able to weather the firepower from a 1,000 point fleet on its own...

 

[GalagaGalaxian]

A C8 with all 32 drones striking it's forward shield probably can. 32 d6s averages to 112. C8 has 30 shields doubled to 60 and 60 hull so, assuming at least some are shot down, it'll live! For one turn anyways.

Anyways, what I was trying to say is that boosting shields is not the best idea if your goal is to advance while mitigating as many drones as possible.

 

[tneva82]

Can a Fed ship weather the 32ish drones a 1000 point Kzinti frigate-heavy fleet can bring to bear?

Can kzinzi ship weather 1000 point worth of federation photon's?

Gee. 1000 pts against what...150-200? pts. No suprise 150-200 pts ship is in trouble. Going up against 5 to 1(or worse) odds is generally not recommended

 

[GalagaGalaxian]

Aye, but its a lot harder to get onto a single target 1000 points of F arc, 15 inch hits on 4s or 5s photons that shoot every other turn at best than 36 inch T arc drones that shoot every turn.

 

[Keeper Nilbog]

The C8, because of the odd Phaser mounts, is one of the more drone resistant ships in the Klingon Fleet. Double strength Front Shield (which if boosted gets the equal of 6D6 as the 3D6 boost doubles ), 10 defensive phasers firing into the forward arc (hitting on 2+, ), along with ADD, it's drone and other toys.

The other thing i've been thinking on (if you win initiative) is using your movement to place your ships on the RX angle, as you then get your P/A/S Ph-2's into play (2 extra phasers is nothing to be laughed at), and can still take strikes on the front shield. It would limit movement, as you'd need to maneuver to get the angle and try to keep the majority of the enemy fleet on your F arc.

 

[Iron Domokun]

Aye, but its a lot harder to get onto a single target 1000 points of F arc, 15 inch hits on 4s or 5s photons that shoot every other turn at best than 36 inch T arc drones that shoot every turn.

...and the drones aren't all the weapons those frigates have.

 

[Finlos]

I think Matt had a valid point, above. It's a fleet game, ships are going to blow up and sometimes everything you can do just isn't enough.

While never neglecting defense, killing enemy ships is always a good idea. If your Kzinti opponent insists on multiple frigates, great! They're relatively easy (easier) to kill so you just might be able to get a couple of them per turn. Every one you do kill is 4 less AD worth of drones coming at you in future turns which is easier on your defenses.

 

[GalagaGalaxian]

Aye, thats what I was (perhaps poorly) trying to say. You're gonna get reamed by those drones, its inevitable, you must instead concentrate on getting in to kill those frigates as fast as possible.

Playing defensively against such a force will only delay the inevitable.