Fluffy Bunny Feet
Cosmic Mongoose
What of that does Biosphere affect? Just the 1000 Cr per person or all?
Passenger Staterooms: Single Travellers vs Couples
- Thread starter Terry Mixon
- Start date
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
At this moment in time, there are two types of accommodation, that I recall, where all other associated life support costs are ignored, except as clearly defined in their description.
Biospheres and Stables.
Biospheres and Stables.
Nah, I think you can look at it as "the cost of maintaining the life support equipment that is needed for long term use per person is Cr500 per maintenance period". That's a floor cost for all the stuff a ship needs to cover its passenger capacity, before the additional costs of actual people on board are added, matches up with staterooms, barracks and short term accomodations (which can't routinely be used for long term).
Low Berths are their own thing.
Biospheres eliminate per passenger life support costs, but not per stateroom ones.
BIOSPHERE
This is an area dedicated to flora and fauna, either for
the production of food or as a leisure area. Every ton
dedicated to a biosphere eliminates life support costs
for two passengers.
Biospheres consume one Power and cost MCr0.2 per ton.
Nothing in there about the passengers being to sleep in them. They still need staterooms, or whatever.
Stables are stated to replace the ship's air and waste systems for their cargo, so they're a cheaper per head fixed cost. You'd still need to pay Cr1000 per person (or whatever) as far as I can see. This is still coming from the stance that the per accommodation costs are just what it costs to keep them running for 4 weeks without occupancy.
Low Berths are their own thing.
Biospheres eliminate per passenger life support costs, but not per stateroom ones.
BIOSPHERE
This is an area dedicated to flora and fauna, either for
the production of food or as a leisure area. Every ton
dedicated to a biosphere eliminates life support costs
for two passengers.
Biospheres consume one Power and cost MCr0.2 per ton.
Nothing in there about the passengers being to sleep in them. They still need staterooms, or whatever.
Stables are stated to replace the ship's air and waste systems for their cargo, so they're a cheaper per head fixed cost. You'd still need to pay Cr1000 per person (or whatever) as far as I can see. This is still coming from the stance that the per accommodation costs are just what it costs to keep them running for 4 weeks without occupancy.
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Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
This is an area depicted to flora and fauna, either for the production of food or as a leisure area. Every ton dedicated to a biosphere will eliminate the life support costs for two passengers.
Biosphere consume 1 power and cost Mcr0.2 per ton.
Taken at face value, that means that you don't need t assign staterooms to two passengers, not those associated life support costs.
You could sling a hammock between two coconut trees within a biosphere.
Biosphere consume 1 power and cost Mcr0.2 per ton.
Taken at face value, that means that you don't need t assign staterooms to two passengers, not those associated life support costs.
You could sling a hammock between two coconut trees within a biosphere.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Used by traders, stables are low-grade housing for animals and, in some systems, slaves. Stables come with their own air scrubbers and waste-collectors, avoiding the need to tax the existing life support systems of the ship.
Stables cost Cr25000 per ten tons. A ten ton stable is capable of housing 20 human-sized or 10 cattle-sized creatures. Life support costs are Cr250 per ton.
It's an enclosed system.
Unless, you leave the barn door open.
Stables cost Cr25000 per ten tons. A ten ton stable is capable of housing 20 human-sized or 10 cattle-sized creatures. Life support costs are Cr250 per ton.
It's an enclosed system.
Unless, you leave the barn door open.
I disagree, "eliminate life support costs" is not the same as "eliminate the accommodation requirement". Each basic passenger requires at least 2 DTons of non-dedicated space (cargo area for example). A biosphere is only 1 DTon and presumably full of the bio elements (and probably pretty full of racked and stacked plants).This is an area depicted to flora and fauna, either for the production of food or as a leisure area. Every ton dedicated to a biosphere will eliminate the life support costs for two passengers.
Biosphere consume 1 power and cost Mcr0.2 per ton.
Taken at face value, that means that you don't need t assign staterooms to two passengers, not those associated life support costs.
You could sling a hammock between two coconut trees within a biosphere.
As it is not associated with a specific accommodation type it cannot eliminate the per room cost, only the Cr1000 per passenger cost. This is still a considerable saving though and more than pays its way over dedicating that space to cargo (for short trips at least).
Yeah, were it not for the capital cost. CR200,000 per ton. And you save Cr2000 per 4 weeks in life support, but also lose at least Cr2000 in freight profit for those two jumps. Which would be breaking even, if not for the annual maintenance on MCr0.2 (which admittedly is quite small)
So it's one of those things like a hot tub you install not to make money, but to improve the experience. Probably more of a Liner or long term exploration feature than something a merchant would run towards.
Unless they appreciate fresh fruit.
Space scurvy is hell.
So it's one of those things like a hot tub you install not to make money, but to improve the experience. Probably more of a Liner or long term exploration feature than something a merchant would run towards.
Unless they appreciate fresh fruit.
Space scurvy is hell.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
It's a fortnight jaunt, not a five year cruise.
Commercially, passengers have to accept the accommodations that the ship owner makes available, which obviously is going to revolve around the maximum possible profit margin.
You get a stateroom at that ticket price, and you're going to like it.
I got into this, mostly trying to accommodate troops and crew personnel, for the Terra Express, where military considerations tend to prevail over comfort and convenience.
Commercially, passengers have to accept the accommodations that the ship owner makes available, which obviously is going to revolve around the maximum possible profit margin.
You get a stateroom at that ticket price, and you're going to like it.
I got into this, mostly trying to accommodate troops and crew personnel, for the Terra Express, where military considerations tend to prevail over comfort and convenience.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
I would agree with you, but the book says different. It says that Biospheres eliminates life support costs. It doesn't say partially eliminates. It says eliminates. That means all life support costs, for the per Stateroom and for the per person cost. This is further backed up by the Biosphere being used for food production as well as leisure space.
page 154 of the CRB
"Life Support and Supplies: Each stateroom on a ship costs Cr1000 every Maintenance Period. This cost covers supplies for the life support system as well as food and water, although meals at this level will be rather spartan. Each person on board a ship who is not in a low berth will cost an additional Cr1000 every Maintenance Period in life support costs."
(bolding Mine)
The food and water clearly come out of the Stateroom cost, not the per person cost. So, Mongoose needs to rewrite that, if they want it to make any sense anyhow.
boggo2300
Cosmic Mongoose
you're ignoring this, bare bones, and not much, the rest of the food is obviously covered elsewhere, dunno about you, but bread and water is no way to travel.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Doesn't say anywhere else that covers food. The only place that specifically mentions food is in the per stateroom cost. I disagree with this, but that is what the book says.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
You can roll out a sleeping bag in the cargo hold.
What's more concerning would be how that life support is distributed throughout the spacecraft.
I'd walk around with a gas monitor, so that I wouldn't stumble into a carbon dioxide hole.
What's more concerning would be how that life support is distributed throughout the spacecraft.
I'd walk around with a gas monitor, so that I wouldn't stumble into a carbon dioxide hole.
Or life boats where resupply is impossible (but yes I had forgotten the second jump freight so it's definitely a loss leader).
It's all rather messy.
Each ton eliminates the life support costs for two passengers. Per Passenger life support is a discrete cost from per stateroom life support.
A garden can't eliminate the other costs of life support, which are baked into the life support machinery based on accommodations. If nothing else, there's freshers, laundry and cleaning costs. Or is everyone bathing in the biodome and using it as a toilet?
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Does need fertilizer.
Maybe that would reduce maintenance cost on the biosphere?
Maybe that would reduce maintenance cost on the biosphere?
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
For all We know the biosphere could handle all of that. Bio-carpets that recycle air and eat dust. A small "natural" whirlpool that is used to wash clothing. Shower could be as simple as a small waterfall. All of the maintenance for these things comes out of the maintenance budget. The life support costs can't be maintenance stuff for the machinery as that is covered elsewhere. Food and water come from the per stateroom cost, yet you say that the biosphere doesn't affect the price of stateroom life support, even though the biosphere specifically states that it can provide food.
Remember, nowhere does it say that it is one biosphere. It could be divided up between every stateroom on the ship. The description of the biosphere says it can be used for leisure, but it isn't counted as common area. Staterooms say they have space for leisure. Maybe these are the same thing. You are replacing standard life support machinery and equipment and replacing it with biological alternatives.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
boggo2300
Cosmic Mongoose
soooo you're saying every one that travels in space survives on the equivalent of bread and water, because it doesn't mention food in the per person life support?
